Yet another MTG Thread -- Crazy Is As Crazy Does

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,857
10,277
136
All we need to do is start prosecuting politicians for deliberately spreading dangerous misinformation. And we know the GOP is scared of being prosecuted because for years they and their corporate sponsors have been whining about their right to spread lies, calling it Free Speech.
Much less dangerous to just allow technology companies to be sued for damages for spreading dangerous bullshit, as opposed to trying to regulate misinformation directly.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
Much less dangerous to just allow technology companies to be sued for damages for spreading dangerous bullshit, as opposed to trying to regulate misinformation directly.
You want social media companies to be sued for the statements of their users? This seems like a very bad idea.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,701
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All we need to do is start prosecuting politicians for deliberately spreading dangerous misinformation. And we know the GOP is scared of being prosecuted because for years they and their corporate sponsors have been whining about their right to spread lies, calling it Free Speech.

No, that power would absolutely get misused by a future Bill Barr type guy.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,673
7,168
136
All we need to do is start prosecuting politicians for deliberately spreading dangerous misinformation. And we know the GOP is scared of being prosecuted because for years they and their corporate sponsors have been whining about their right to spread lies, calling it Free Speech.

Went to a tire and general repair shop, checked in, went into the customer lounge and there they were on a nice big monitor screen, FOX News talking heads spewing their bullshit for all their customers to get propagandized by. I asked the customer service rep behind the desk if I could change the channel and I quote her reply, "The owner decides what channel the customers will view". I cancelled my app't and went to their competitors down the street.

Same thing happened at my son's workplace breakroom. Management decided that FOX was what their employees would watch during breaks and I'm talking about a very large organization being funded by us, the taxpayers.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,857
10,277
136
You want social media companies to be sued for the statements of their users? This seems like a very bad idea.
When they've actively promoted them, yes.

There has to be something between do nothing and the internet falling apart. Facebook, et. al. make a shit ton of money knowingly spread and promoting bullshit and knowingly driving people to radicalize and to suicide, they shouldn't be allowed to do them with no recourse.

Section 230 was designed for places like Geocities or passive forums, not for companies to take third party postings and actively push them onto millions of other people.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
When they've actively promoted them, yes.

There has to be something between do nothing and the internet falling apart. Facebook, et. al. make a shit ton of money knowingly spread and promoting bullshit and knowingly driving people to radicalize and to suicide, they shouldn't be allowed to do them with no recourse.

Section 230 was designed for places like Geocities or passive forums, not for companies to take third party postings and actively push them onto millions of other people.
Not true, 230 was made for everyone. Regardless, knowingly spreading and promoting bullshit is (for the most part) protected by the first amendment so section 230 wouldn't even matter.

Section 230 essentially protects say, Anandtech, if I defame you on this platform. It says you have to sue me, the perpetrator, and not Anandtech, the forum service. Without section 230 I guarantee you this forum would be closed in a matter of minutes.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Funny thing is, if you put the financial load on the forum/company, they would likely be even more aggressive at booting evil speakers.

The Donny Gang would have no public voice at all outside of their own site(s).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
Funny thing is, if you put the financial load on the forum/company, they would likely be even more aggressive at booting evil speakers.

The Donny Gang would have no public voice at all outside of their own site(s).
If you remove section 230 protections that means companies can either not moderate at all, so the entire internet becomes 4chan, or they will moderate so strictly everything is censored, or they will shut down entirely.

Section 230 is awesome, don't screw with it.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,857
10,277
136
Not true, 230 was made for everyone. Regardless, knowingly spreading and promoting bullshit is (for the most part) protected by the first amendment so section 230 wouldn't even matter.

Section 230 essentially protects say, Anandtech, if I defame you on this platform. It says you have to sue me, the perpetrator, and not Anandtech, the forum service. Without section 230 I guarantee you this forum would be closed in a matter of minutes.
Anandtech doesn't promote your posts, Facebook does.

Facebook specifically started purposely spreading and promoting anger 15 years after 230 was created. Your argument is basically like saying the second amendment covers tanks and nukes
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,857
10,277
136
If you remove section 230 protections that means companies can either not moderate at all, so the entire internet becomes 4chan, or they will moderate so strictly everything is censored, or they will shut down entirely.

Section 230 is awesome, don't screw with it.
There is obviously some ability to have something between completely static websites and industrialized hatred and propaganda.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
Anandtech doesn't promote your posts, Facebook does.

Facebook specifically started purposely spreading and promoting anger 15 years after 230 was created. Your argument is basically like saying the second amendment covers tanks and nukes

It's not, I'm saying that first and foremost promoting and spreading anger is protected by the first amendment unless it is reasonably considered to incite imminent lawless action. Imminent meaning RIGHT NOW, not some radicalizing thing where they will go kill someone tomorrow. After all this is why the first amendment protects Nazis and Klansmen despite their evil and clearly violent ideology.

So first and foremost the first amendment protects them. So hate and lies are open season unless you're repealing the first amendment. What the first amendment doesn't generally protect is defamation, which is the main thing 230 is protecting against, and defamation isn't really what you're concerned about as far as I can tell.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,280
28,139
136
Not true, 230 was made for everyone. Regardless, knowingly spreading and promoting bullshit is (for the most part) protected by the first amendment so section 230 wouldn't even matter.

Section 230 essentially protects say, Anandtech, if I defame you on this platform. It says you have to sue me, the perpetrator, and not Anandtech, the forum service. Without section 230 I guarantee you this forum would be closed in a matter of minutes.
Really? Think suing Sean Hannity would go anywhere in court? Doesn't sound like the current 230 works.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
Really? Think suing Sean Hannity would go anywhere in court? Doesn't sound like the current 230 works.
I don't think suing Sean Hannity is likely to go anywhere, no, but I'm not sure what section 230 has to do with that as that would be defamation law and even then not applicable.

Section 230 would protect the Anandtech forums if Sean Hannity showed up here and started defaming people, it would not protect Sean Hannity from a defamation lawsuit.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,857
10,277
136
It's not, I'm saying that first and foremost promoting and spreading anger is protected by the first amendment unless it is reasonably considered to incite imminent lawless action. Imminent meaning RIGHT NOW, not some radicalizing thing where they will go kill someone tomorrow. After all this is why the first amendment protects Nazis and Klansmen despite their evil and clearly violent ideology.

So first and foremost the first amendment protects them. So hate and lies are open season unless you're repealing the first amendment. What the first amendment doesn't generally protect is defamation, which is the main thing 230 is protecting against, and defamation isn't really what you're concerned about as far as I can tell.
The first amendment doesn't make you immune from the liability of your speech. If a forum is pushing suicide on kids and providing them them detailed instructions, that forum should be able to be sued for damages, but because of 230 there are no consequences. Just like I said Facebook should be able to be sued for actual damages they've caused.

Since Facebook actively help recruit and organize Jan 6th, they should be in part responsible for the damages, but instead they get to hide behind 230.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,754
49,397
136
The first amendment doesn't make you immune from the liability of your speech. If a forum is pushing suicide on kids and providing them them detailed instructions, that forum should be able to be sued for damages, but because of 230 there are no consequences. Just like I said Facebook should be able to be sued for actual damages they've caused.

The first amendment protects your right to promote suicide. Now you might be able to get in trouble if you specifically coerced someone into suicide but the act of saying 'suicide is good and here's methods to commit suicide' are all first amendment protected speech. Similarly, you can advocate for the violent overthrow of the US government and the first amendment protects your right to do this, so long as your advocacy is general in nature and is not geared towards an imminent lawless act.

Since Facebook actively help recruit and organize Jan 6th, they should be in part responsible for the damages, but instead they get to hide behind 230.
[/QUOTE]
No, this is all first amendment protected speech. Section 230 aside if Facebook as an entity wasn't just promoting content through algorithms but was actively having its staff post content recruiting for 1/6 this would also be first amendment protected speech.

Your problem isn't with section 230, your problem is with the first amendment.
 

uallas5

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2005
1,447
1,585
136
I was not aware of any blonde neanderthal women. I bet it's dyed blonde.
And now we're insulting neanderthals. Before that it was horses. Can we stop comparing MTG to anything other than horrible pathogens like Smallpox or Anthrax?
 
Reactions: nakedfrog
Nov 17, 2019
11,276
6,707
136
Whaddya do when the loons commence ta' peckin' at each other?





Sit back and guffaw?

Or send one of'em money?


 
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