Yet another police killing on video

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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
After regretting the search for a gangbang meme...I cdecided to look up some history on the guy and came up with a news article back when it happened

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gang-615925-long-aguilar.html

How you shape a narrative prior to all the civilians filming stuff

A 23-year-old man who shot a sheriff’s deputy in North Long Beach on Monday and subsequently died in a deputy-involved shooting was a known gang member on the city’s gang injunction list, authorities said Tuesday.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
I don't even know how those cops could go home and sleep at night.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
cops have been preying on the lower classes since BC. We just now all get to witness it first hand. We are in a turbulent stage, the police need to change the way they work with people and thats going to take about 20 years. So the problem is a long term one.

Is the police that much removed from the politicians? Isn't the police a branch of the state (state level) and to a lesser degree the federal level? So maybe what we're seeing is coming from above. I'm sure the politicians know whats going on.

Things just don't happen for no reason or randomly. A lot of the stuff we see on the media that we think is just random might actually be pre-planned or put into motion.

It's kind of weird though:

All this time we've been used to the white shooters being shown on the media. Now, all of a sudden, we are seeing black shooters and there is suddenly a potential race war. It's just so bizarre.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Two facts. The man had a gun, he resisted arrest.
Can anyone explain why a person would struggle and fight with police?

As far as your assumptions bshole, I watched the video and:

They disarmed him, then proceeded to murder him.

The cop that shot the last 3 bullets was himself shot and didn't know it was his partner that shot him. When he shot those bullets he had no idea if he was himself going to die. If that were me and I got shot and I thought it was the person I was trying to arrest, I would have to admit my first instinct would be to empty my gun into him. I simply can't see any jury convicting the cop.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
The cop that shot the last 3 bullets was himself shot and didn't know it was his partner that shot him. When he shot those bullets he had no idea if he was himself going to die. If that were me and I got shot and I thought it was the person I was trying to arrest, I would have to admit my first instinct would be to empty my gun into him. I simply can't see any jury convicting the cop.

And that should totally be the standard by which we hold our police, they can be the judge, jury, and executioner, so long as they say they were scared.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
And that should totally be the standard by which we hold our police, they can be the judge, jury, and executioner, so long as they say they were scared.


Yeah, that's it. He just said he was scared. Let's ignore that he chased a gang member, fought with him as he resisted arrest, pulled a gun off of him during the fight, and then got shot.

It the moments that happened I'm sure he knew that he was shot by the other cop or even thought that is what happened. It's perfectly valid to think that the subject shot him so he shot the subject.

But you're right, he just said he was scared.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Yeah, that's it. He just said he was scared. Let's ignore that he chased a gang member, fought with him as he resisted arrest, pulled a gun off of him during the fight, and then got shot.

It the moments that happened I'm sure he knew that he was shot by the other cop or even thought that is what happened. It's perfectly valid to think that the subject shot him so he shot the subject.

But you're right, he just said he was scared.

You do know we actually know what happened right? So, someone is dead and the officer just continues policing? And you can't understand the Black Lives matter movement.

It doesn't matter if it's a good guy or bad guy. Police officers can't just make the decision to kill people.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
America is a fine place to visit [for white people], as long as you stay out of shitholes and don't antagonize the police, ignore their orders, struggle/fight with them, and/or carry weapons you're not supposed to have on you. I.e. don't do dumb shit and you're generally fine with the police.

Fixed that for you.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
You do know we actually know what happened right? So, someone is dead and the officer just continues policing? And you can't understand the Black Lives matter movement.



It doesn't matter if it's a good guy or bad guy. Police officers can't just make the decision to kill people.



Yes, we know after the fact. At that very moment where the officer was wrestling with him and got shot, do you think that you would have thought it was your partner that shot you? There's a reason the courts say you can't look at these things in hindsight. You have to look at them as to how the officer perceived things at the time.

If the officer had known or realized immediately that his partner had shot time, do you really think he would have shot the guy?

As for BLM, my post had nothing to do with that.

As for making the decision to kill people, unfortunately, the police have to make that decision at times. To think that they take that decision lightly or that they don't feel anything afterwards is nonsense.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
The Cop who was shot reacting the way he did was not "wrong". However, to say the shooting itself was acceptable is just fucked up beyond reason.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Yes, we know after the fact. At that very moment where the officer was wrestling with him and got shot, do you think that you would have thought it was your partner that shot you? There's a reason the courts say you can't look at these things in hindsight. You have to look at them as to how the officer perceived things at the time.

If the officer had known or realized immediately that his partner had shot time, do you really think he would have shot the guy?

As for BLM, my post had nothing to do with that.

As for making the decision to kill people, unfortunately, the police have to make that decision at times. To think that they take that decision lightly or that they don't feel anything afterwards is nonsense.

His partner was there. Should have told his partner he shot him.

And btw, the cop didn't act like he thought the suspect shot him. If he did he would have reacted immediately by pulling out his gun and shooting back.
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
His partner was there. Should have told his partner he shot him.



And btw, the cop didn't act like he thought the suspect shot him. If he did he would have reacted immediately by pulling out his gun and shooting back.


Once again, you make the assumption that the one cop knew he actually shot the other cop at that immediate moment. In a hectic scene, I would surmise that he didn't realize that he shot his partner and the one being shot didn't realize his partner shot him.

As for the cop not acting like he thought the suspect shot him, there's no standard way that people react to being shot.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Once again, you make the assumption that the one cop knew he actually shot the other cop at that immediate moment. In a hectic scene, I would surmise that he didn't realize that he shot his partner and the one being shot didn't realize his partner shot him.

As for the cop not acting like he thought the suspect shot him, there's no standard way that people react to being shot.

Weird we argue against each other on the Minnesota shooting but agree on this one....
 

The Merg

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2009
1,210
34
91
Weird we argue against each other on the Minnesota shooting but agree on this one....


LOL!

I try to view things logically once I know the whole story (or as much as we can know).

(And don't worry, you can hate me again tomorrow...)
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,978
8,695
136
America is a fine place to visit, as long as you stay out of shitholes and don't antagonize the police, ignore their orders, struggle/fight with them, and/or carry weapons you're not supposed to have on you. I.e. don't do dumb shit and you're generally fine with the police.

I can see some easy scenarios whereby it would be easy to suffer death by cop in the US.

I'm driving through a little rural town and don't notice the speed trap, I've got out of town plates so I get pulled over.

After getting pulled over I open the door and walk towards the police car to see what the problem is. This is normal behavior in my country because in my country both me and the policeman aren't assuming that we are out to kill each other.
Whilst walking to the police car I am reaching to my pocket for the papers I'll need.

Shit goes badly.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I can see some easy scenarios whereby it would be easy to suffer death by cop in the US.

I'm driving through a little rural town and don't notice the speed trap, I've got out of town plates so I get pulled over.

After getting pulled over I open the door and walk towards the police car to see what the problem is. This is normal behavior in my country because in my country both me and the policeman aren't assuming that we are out to kill each other.
Whilst walking to the police car I am reaching to my pocket for the papers I'll need.

Shit goes badly.

Don't worry they would advise you over the loud speaker in their car to get back into your vehicle as soon as you try to get out.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
I can see some easy scenarios whereby it would be easy to suffer death by cop in the US.

I'm driving through a little rural town and don't notice the speed trap, I've got out of town plates so I get pulled over.

After getting pulled over I open the door and walk towards the police car to see what the problem is. This is normal behavior in my country because in my country both me and the policeman aren't assuming that we are out to kill each other.
Whilst walking to the police car I am reaching to my pocket for the papers I'll need.

Shit goes badly.

LOL, yeah, that would be bad. Probably die of lead poisoning before you hit the ground.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,978
8,695
136
Don't worry they would advise you over the loud speaker in their car to get back into your vehicle as soon as you try to get out.
That's still not meeting the definition of a fine place to visit to me.

I suppose that as long as you guys are happy with it that's what matters.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
We're not really. I've never had a single problem with a cop, but I still find their overall behavior disgusting. The bad ones really do ruin it for the good ones, in this regard. There are too many bad ones.

Something needs to change. Something is going to change. But it's either going to take a long time, or some catastrophe. Or both....
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
Once again, you make the assumption that the one cop knew he actually shot the other cop at that immediate moment. In a hectic scene, I would surmise that he didn't realize that he shot his partner and the one being shot didn't realize his partner shot him.

As for the cop not acting like he thought the suspect shot him, there's no standard way that people react to being shot.

That's the problem with a lot of the comments against cops, they are not able to put themselves in the actual shoes of the police office during the incident. No one can. We are all sitting safely at our computer discussing this with all the evidence laid out in front of us.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
92
91
That's still not meeting the definition of a fine place to visit to me.

I suppose that as long as you guys are happy with it that's what matters.

I was in a car in London when it was pulled over and the police freaked out when the driver tried to get out of the car. I've also been in a car that was engaged by police in Russia and Brazil and the situations weren't drastically different than what I've experienced in the US. My point is I don't think your contrived situation is as true as you'd have us believe. Also, I don't get out of the car because I assume the cop and I both want to kill each other; the reason I don'pt get out is because staying in the car is safer on a road and it's what they tell you to do. If they told me to get out, I'd get out. In every country I've visited and ever will visit, I have always and will always wait for the police to tell me what to do before I do anything should they for some reason become interested in me. This is logical and sensible in every culture I've ever experienced.

What you are apparently exposed to via internet and news is people with extreme agendas showing you mostly criminals being shot sometimes in the middle of a crime, except with a huge spin to make them look innocent. Literally I've never seen or even heard of anything like what has been in the news recently in anywhere I've ever lived for my entire life. You need to take a serious look at violent crime in your own country if you think the US is so much worse that it's not even possible to safely visit. The only safety issue you'll have in the US is being blown up by muslims and that's happening everywhere. Don't fight with police in any country and you won't have a problem. The dumbfucks who get shot here are actively resisting arrest or threatening the police.

In the middle of a situation where a police officer is struggling with a person who looks shady and even has weapons, it is VERY reasonable to assume the worst because the worst is often what happens when police officers hesitate. Just because a police officer is trained doesn't mean they're no longer human. They can feel fear and anger just like we do and basic instincts are always going to overrule higher level thoughts. The guy in this situation got shot and then reacted in the only sensible way within seconds. There's NO way those two cops could have effectively communicated what went wrong in the middle of a struggle with a guy who is both fighting with them and was very recently disarmed.

Put yourself in that type of situation and ask if you'd take the time to have a chat with your buddy while the guy who you think just shot you is still potentially capable of doing it again. "Hold on sir. I need to ask my friend if he just shot me, which is HIGHLY unusual in the first place and especially considering you had a gun and you ran from me, or if we can both agree that you shot me and I need to proceed with my training. Please hold." Actually, what would happen is the exact same thing as what happened in this case: you'd think the guy shot you and you would instinctively shoot him back. I'm not going to try to explain every nuance of who shot how many bullets and at what time because the general theme makes perfect sense to me. How each person will react will dictate some of the details, but most people will either freeze up or leap into action and leaping into action when you get shot is to shoot back in this situation.

P.S. This isn't all directed at you.
 
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SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
Common Sense:
If you are a police officer, and apprehending a suspect.
Who is resisting arrest, refusing to comply with instructions and found to be armed with a gun.
Things are hotting up.
Once the officer(s) have decided to draw their weapons.

You can't stand around and spend 5 minutes, carefully weighing up the situation and asking BOTH the suspect and fellow police officer what is going on, who shot who, is he still armed, etc etc.

So once shots have been fired the police officers have to use the immediate decisions that their brains make for them.

You have to react VERY quickly, otherwise suspects can and will (in some cases) shoot the police officers DEAD (or injured).

So if either or both officers can reasonably make a super quick decision that it has become VERY dangerous and apparently the suspect is shooting at the officers.

They can/will and should immediately fire back.

There just isn't TIME to wait 10 seconds or 20 seconds or 5 minutes, because it will only take a bad criminal, 1 second (VERY approximately), to potentially shoot the police officers DEAD.

He was resisting arrest, and refusing to comply with the police officers requests. He was armed with a gun, and seemed to have it in his hand (if I understand the video correctly), while acting rather in an apparently uncooperative/dangerous way.

tl;dr
If you DON'T want to get shot by police, don't resist arrest, while having a gun near or even in your hand. It is extremely dangerous to do so.

It is VERY easy to quietly watch the video at home, while relaxed and with plenty of time and hindsight, and say "He shouldn't have done that". But you have to be realistic about what was occurring at that time.

The video is NOT 100% clear, and I don't fully know what the police officers were thinking at the time etc. But my quick and ready opinion, is that it was the suspects fault. The police were just acting how they (I would imagine) have been trained to respond, to (at least somewhat) violently armed and dangerous criminals.
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
The cop that shot the last 3 bullets was himself shot and didn't know it was his partner that shot him. When he shot those bullets he had no idea if he was himself going to die. If that were me and I got shot and I thought it was the person I was trying to arrest, I would have to admit my first instinct would be to empty my gun into him. I simply can't see any jury convicting the cop.

Jesus, what a fucking disgusting bigot you are.

Did you watch the video finally? Like how the cop literally sits up and then shoots him three times point blank?

It's people like you and the others that blindly give the police a pass on this that allow they to continue to murder innocent people.
 
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