YMMV 40 HR Series 2 Tivo for $0.00 after $100 Rebate (Best Buy in store only)

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Originally posted by: Steve0
Dunno about that, it just goes against the principle - something like this shouldn't require a service to record TV shows because this is what it's intended to do, this is ridiculous. It's like buying a videocard which will work under windows but will require a subscription to play 3D games. Or think about it this way: this thing shouldn't cost more than $100-120 hardware wise, with the service that I have to buy to get it to work I would have to pay $400 over the course of three years (299 if I decide to do a lifetime activation). 299-400 is three times 100-120 so they are making 200% profit on it...

In other words, if it cost $100-$120 and worked right away, I might have went for it because it's a fair value, but at $299-$400 in hidden costs - never...

What you're paying for is the provision of TV schedule data that enables the TiVo to function as an automated recording device, which is the real joy about it.

That a Series 2 TiVo is useless without that data, and cannot be used manually, well...so it goes. If telephones were free, they'd be useless without a dial tone.

I've got to think that there's a lot of profit in that, and I think that's what FleshConsumed was complaing about. It's sort of like Microsoft. They create another OS or upgrade for an application and "license" it to people for X dollars. Whether 100,000 or 1,000,000 people license it doesn't change the bottom line of how much it costs Microsoft to write the software, and doesn't even increase the cost of support that much. However, it does factor their profit considerably. If they happen to sell 10,000,000 they make a killing and that's why Bill Gates is such a rich man and that's why MS has created (I think) over 10,000 millionaires (am I just dreaming this, not quite - a LOT of millionaires, but I forget just what that mind-boggling number was). I have a resistance to subscriptions myself. I do subscribe to a couple of newpapers, but even that doesn't sit right with me. But at least I get something physical at my door every day. When I buy an electronic component, I know that a team of people had to design it, test it, manufacture it, deliver it, market it and it has to be supported afterward, and there's a limited window for the product. In 6 months or a year that product will be history. I don't mind so much paying for the product under such circumstances. It's a deal I can be comfortable with, IOW. Subscriptions arouse suspicion, however, especially to things electronic, such as cable TV, satellite TV, and internet access. Also, electronic subsription services of one kind or another seem to be more monopolistic than material goods, where the marketplace is a lot more competitive, IMO.
 

straubs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
908
0
0
Uh, price seems to be $89.99 after rebate. Does this mean I missed this deal? (dammit)

TiVo® - Digital Video Recorder with 40-Hour Capacity
TCD540040
Price before:
$100 mail-in rebate
Sale: $189.99


Someone said something about "instantly" saving $100, then the $100 rebate... Where is that printed?


UPDATE:
Went to the store and the shelf tag for the 40 hour unit was $100 - $10 rebate = FREE After mail in rebate!
80 hour unit was $199 - $100 rebate = $99 after mail in rebate.

However, the 40 hour unit rang up as $189.99. The cashier couldn't understand why the tag, printed TODAY, was showing the lower price. After a manager came over, they overrode the price to $100, which means I have a FAR tivo! I didn't argue or anything, I just had to show them both the shelf tags were showing $99 and FAR for these Tivos and they did their thing and gave it to me for that price.
 

Steve0

Senior member
Mar 31, 2000
447
0
0
muse, that's an eloquent post, and I agree with it. I'm not defending TiVo's practice of charging for a subscription. I too think it's repugnant, and makes the decision to jump on the TiVo bandwagon a lot harder. But as a consumer, the decision for me is less one of principle than of value. When I got my first TiVo (at CC, through a hot deal right here on AT), between all the rebates and pricematches, the hardware cost me $50 and the subscription $100, IIRC. Well worth it.

Now my second TiVo will cost me $0 for the hardware and $7/month for the service. I don't think it'll be long, thanks to competition, before TiVo will be forced to provide its service for free. I don't think I'll be out many seven-dollarses before that happens. No crystal ball here, though. Or, maybe I'll finally try to find out how to hack the guide data.

For someone just getting in the game, you can either stand on principle, or make a value judgment as a consumer. Free hardware presents a wonderful opportunity to sample what a TiVo can do with service for $13/month, and if you decide against, you're not out much. If you decide for, then hope along with me that my gut feeling about TiVo's ability to charge for the service is the right one.

Steve
 

nowayout99

Senior member
Dec 23, 2001
232
0
76
I wasn't big on the idea of a subscription either, but as the TiVo price kept going down, the value proposition made it worthwhile for me.

I got my 40 hour Tivo for $200 after MIR, and I am still a subscriber after a year and counting.

It wasn't that long ago that Tivo was charging $99 for the ability to share photos, stream music, and transfer recordings from tivo to tivo. Now those things are included in the regular sub price... as they should be, because I didn't think those features were tangible enough to require a $99 purchase. All it was was an account setting change. That's like getting air conditioning standard in your car, but you have to pay to get the button that turns it on.

Tivo will continue to get cheaper, but even today I think it is very much worth the $13/mo to me. My TV viewing is erratic because I'm either constantly moving, or I don't want to watch TV to *their* schedule, or I just can't remember (or don't know) the time and channel something is on that I want to see.

It's like a smart VCR. If subscriptions freak you out, then sign up for the lifetime service if you happen to be able to get the Tivo itself for free.
 

straubs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2001
908
0
0
Deal is dead, except in the store. YMMV, but you have a good chance if the shelf tag hasn't been changed since this morning 8/29 at 3 am. Read my post above.
 

MJGunn

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2001
1,983
0
0
Now I know why everyone always says best buy sucks :|

Placed my order this morning no problems, went in the sttore, picked it up, brought it home....no problems.

Plugged the tivo in, and this thing was LOUD, and it was coming from the fact that the hard drive spinning was vibrating the whole box. So, boxed it back up, and go to return it. Walk up to CS "Sorry sir, we can't do exchanges for online pickup items, only returns". 20 minutes of arguing that, they tell me theres no way they can do it, the only thing I can do is call them, and do an exchange over the phone by shipping mine in, and having them ship me a new one. Annoying, but still not that big a problem.

Get on the phone in parking lot, wait, and finally speak to someone. First, she keeps telling me that the 99 is after rebate.....like I don't know what I was charged. Then, I finally get her to actually LOOK at my order, to see that this morning, I was only charged $99, before the rebate. Then, she tries to tell me that the rebate wasn't valid this morning. Again, I reason with her, tell her to check the dates on the rebate, and the model numbers, which clearly show the rebate is valid for me.

Long story short, after about 30 minutes of this, it boiled down to the fact that BB will not do an exchange, and will only do a return/repurchase, and the repurchase would be at the higher price. I'm told that its been forwarded to the resolution department to see if they can match....their own price, but I highly doubt I'll be getting any help.

So, my question, would I be able to just buy another tivo, swap the boxes, and return it? There is a serial number on the box, but I see it nowhere on the receipt. A bit unethical yes, but their CS has been horrible, and its about the only simple way to do this.
 

Raiden256

Platinum Member
Feb 11, 2001
2,144
0
0
Hell yeah I'd do that...

Be sure to return it as defective though, so as not to screw the next guy.
 

CQuinn

Golden Member
May 31, 2000
1,656
0
0
Muse, Fleshconsumed...

The problem you are having is that people can find it hard to actually explain what you get with
the subscription that makes it worthwhile and makes a TiVo much more than a VCR on steroids.

(Note, I do not own a TiVo yet, but I've been doing research in preparation to get one (or two).
so if I get some information here wrong, I hope the real TiVo users will add corrections)

1st you have to understand something about the TiVo business model that relates to this very thread.
The reason you can find TiVos FAR at all is because they have a secondary revenue stream that
allows the company to subsidize the cost of producing TiVo units. That secondary stream is the
subscription model for the additional services you get to "enhance your TV viewing experience".
Without that secondary revenue, the TiVo units would cost much more than they currently do.
Tivo also licenses its technology to other companies so they can build units, which reduces thier
cost of production, while giving them a third revenue stream for the same products, and creates
a broader market for Tivo devices.

2nd (the guide itself). Half the reason why Tivos can do all the great things they can with TV is
because the hardware/software is designed to treat incoming video as a streamable media, even
while it is being captured (so you can pause, rewind and fast forward even on "live" TV shows).
This was revolutionary when it first came out, now there are a few other products than can
do the same thing; but most don't do so as well as TiVo has, and they've had time to see the
competition and improve on that technology even further.

The other half is in how Tivos handle the guide data they download. It doesn't just keep a
guide like TVguide.com and refer to that when it needs to record shows. The Tivo creates
a separate database from the incoming guide information. That guide data is prepared in
such a way that the Tivo can parse out information like for actors, directors, categories, titles
and other keywords; as well as other information about the show/series/movie. It then
makes use of that database for things like season passes, wishlists, and user ratings to
make it more efficient at finding and recording your favorite shows.

See http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/whatistivo.html
for other examples of how this can be used. Check out section 9 and 10 specifically.

3rd
Steve0 I don't think it'll be long, thanks to competition, before TiVo will be forced to provide its service for free.

I think it will be a lot longer than you expect. The additional data that is prepared for the Tivo
guide still gives it an advantage over most other offerings. Plus they have established patents
on parts of the technology that protect them to some degree, from cheap knockoffs.
Anybody that wants to compete with Tivo will have to either provide a similar quality device and
service (as ReplayTV does), or try to flood the market with lesser devices that offer some
of the same functionality (as the cable companies are trying to do).

4th (hackability, brand recognition and loyalty)

One of the reasons Tivo was able to develop such a fan-base was the decision early on to allow
a certain degree of hacking on the boxes. As long as the hacks were not doing something
clearly illegal or in violation of copyright, Tivo was willing to look the other way while users went
wild trying to figure out what other things they could get their setups to do. It also didn't hurt
that Tivo software is based on Linux, which of course caught the attention of many in the open
source community. That (along with cooly changing they way users viewed TV) helped spread
the word of mouth about their product, and is a large part of why Tivo has such evangelists as
they do today. Tivo has also (for the most part) been responsive to user feedback on what
changes could make the product better, and actually applied some of those ideas to the
second generation models.
That doesn't really speak to the subscription itself, but a lot of people feel better about paying
the company for something that they are actually interested in improving in favor of thier
customers and not just the media moguls and advertisers.

5th, something that others have failed to mention, and I only know because a friend of mine
with two tivos discovered, Tivo recently rolled the [l=http://www.tivo.com/4.9.asp Media Option[/l]into the regular service cost for the Tivo.
Again, this may not be appealing for everyone, but it is another concrete example of how the subscriptions have increased in value over the years.

 

nowayout99

Senior member
Dec 23, 2001
232
0
76
CQ, you basically have it all right.

The "recommendations" feature can also be turned off. So if you don't want Tivo recording unsolicited recommendations for you, you can turn it off, no problem.

Regarding hacking, the most popular hack people apply is increasing storage capacity. Based on your model, you can either replace the hard drive with a larger one, add a second drive, or both. The person that turned me on to Tivo had a 40 hour model, but replaced the drive with two 100 GB hard drives. Heh. I'd say he has enough space to last a while.


The only recommendation I'd have for a theoretical Series 3 would be to improve encode quality. Even at its highest quality settings, there is still noticable MPEG2 artifacting. It's not bad, but it's noticable.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
4,911
0
0
Well I got in early, for an online order, hopefully they honor it for the lucky few that got in? ANybody get and email stating otherwise?
 

MJGunn

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2001
1,983
0
0
Anyone else move from a series 1 to a series 2?

I could just be paranoid, but it seems to me like the video quality kind of sucks on the series 2 compared to the series 1, medium on it looks like basic on the S1.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Thanks, CQ for that patient and thoughtful explanation of what Tivo is and does and why so many people really like it. I was sort of aware of a lot of that stuff but having no personal experience with it, I just didn't have much of a picture of what Tivo really is in my mind as an overal gestalt! OK, and it's digital and as such it beats the bejesus out of my SVHS VCR's, I know now, having just installed my digital MyHD 120 cards and made a few recordings. Omigod, that stuff rocks. I suppose the people who are getting the best of it are the HD Tivo folks, if the issues aren't that big a deal. I haven't been following that now that those are shipping, but I did before they were shipping and I was making my decision on what to do for HDTV. My HDTV cards (one's a daughterboard allowing DVI out from the MyHD 120) allow recording of analog, DTV and HDTV programming, but you can't watch a recording and make a recording at the same time, at least not without a different stream-playing program. I think that's doable, and it's something I'm going to look into, but meantime I don't even have the power of having a couple of VCR's in terms of timeshifting. Well, maybe I should have jumped on this free Tivo deal but I think by the time I caught sight of this thread the deal was already dead. I couldn't make out that it was $0.00 after rebate when I first hit the site.

BTW, what does "FAR" mean in this context: "The reason you can find TiVos FAR at all is because ..." ?
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
Muse - FAR = Free After Rebate

yougotdeals - This was still alive as of yesterday 6:30 PM. I was even amazed the BB tag was printed $99 - $100 rebate = FREE. The BB sales associate even told me go ahead and buy it because it's FAR.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,009
4,370
136
This was still alive as of yesterday 6:30 PM. I was even amazed the BB tag was printed $99 - $100 rebate = FREE. The BB sales associate even told me go ahead and buy it because it's FAR.

If you're still looking for one of these, your best bet is to go to your store and see if they have it for the $99 price. Some did yesterday and some did not and some that did changed it to the $189. You might get lucky!
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
Originally posted by: allisolm
This was still alive as of yesterday 6:30 PM. I was even amazed the BB tag was printed $99 - $100 rebate = FREE. The BB sales associate even told me go ahead and buy it because it's FAR.

If you're still looking for one of these, your best bet is to go to your store and see if they have it for the $99 price. Some did yesterday and some did not and some that did changed it to the $189. You might get lucky!

Although the BB shelf tag showed $99 - $100 MIR, mine rang up as $189.99

So after waiting 15 minutes or so for a supervisor to come to the cashier I gave up. Carried the TIVO to the TV/Video department which has a register. I was able to track down the same guy who said "it's free after rebate". He must have been a supervisor because he was able to manually adjust it to $99 and the rebate form printed.

allisolm - Did you score one (or two )?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Originally posted by: RossMAN
Muse - FAR = Free After Rebate

FARout! OK, question: How does the service work? Do you plug the Tivo into the phone line? Sorry if it is (or seems like) a stupid question.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: RossMAN
Muse - FAR = Free After Rebate

FARout! OK, question: How does the service work? Do you plug the Tivo into the phone line? Sorry if it is (or seems like) a stupid question.

From what I understand you HAVE TO plug it into a landline for the initial setup.

After that you can use a broadband internet connection (I plan on using a USB WiFi adapter).
 

RedShirt

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2000
1,793
0
0
Originally posted by: RossMAN
Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: RossMAN
Muse - FAR = Free After Rebate

FARout! OK, question: How does the service work? Do you plug the Tivo into the phone line? Sorry if it is (or seems like) a stupid question.

From what I understand you HAVE TO plug it into a landline for the initial setup.

After that you can use a broadband internet connection (I plan on using a USB WiFi adapter).

Please note that Tivo can't use 802.11g. This angered me as in our apartment we have a "G" only network (because when B is used, G speeds cut way down). Luckily I had a spare 802.11g bridge, so I bought a USB to 10/100 Ethernet adaptor and plugged it into the bridge. This works great.

For most people 802.11b I guess wouldn't be a problem.
 

Hork

Senior member
Mar 8, 2000
531
0
0
Okay... a lot of STUFF here...

Thought people might want to know that CompUSA has a Belkin 802.11b USB Wireless Adapter on sale for $9.99 AR right now. Model F5D6051. It's one of the ones that looks like a USB key, but it also has a small base with a connector you can use with it to position it wherever you want. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can get it to work with the Tivo. I thought this was a pretty good deal and others who got into this deal might want to take advantage of it.

Red Shirt -- Take your old wireless B router/access point and plug it into one of the LAN ports of your wireless G router. Configure the G network as G only, and configure the B router as a separate network using a different SSID and using a fixed channel on the edges (like 11). This lets your B devices access your network without cutting down the speed of your G network. If you don't have a B router, you can get one for $20 after rebates these days.

MJGunn -- I have both a Series 1 and Series 2 Tivo and I agree that the default recorded picture quality of the Series 1 is better than the default of the Series 2. I was a little disappointed by this.

Thanks to the original poster for this awesome deal!

 

MJGunn

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2001
1,983
0
0
Originally posted by: Hork
MJGunn -- I have both a Series 1 and Series 2 Tivo and I agree that the default recorded picture quality of the Series 1 is better than the default of the Series 2. I was a little disappointed by this.

Ok, didn't think I was imagining it. Any way to fix it?

 

Hork

Senior member
Mar 8, 2000
531
0
0
Originally posted by: MJGunn
Originally posted by: Hork
MJGunn -- I have both a Series 1 and Series 2 Tivo and I agree that the default recorded picture quality of the Series 1 is better than the default of the Series 2. I was a little disappointed by this.

Ok, didn't think I was imagining it. Any way to fix it?

I think you can set your default recording level in Settings.

I'm going to make sure my signals are all the same as on my Series 1 before I make a final judgement. For example... I'm splitting my cable signal between my TV and Tivo, and using component cables instead of S-video. So I'll add S-video and check the splitter and cable to see that the signal isn't degrading too much.
 

Hork

Senior member
Mar 8, 2000
531
0
0
Originally posted by: Hork
Thought people might want to know that CompUSA has a Belkin 802.11b USB Wireless Adapter on sale for $9.99 AR right now. Model F5D6051. It's one of the ones that looks like a USB key, but it also has a small base with a connector you can use with it to position it wherever you want. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can get it to work with the Tivo. I thought this was a pretty good deal and others who got into this deal might want to take advantage of it.

Found out this USB Wireless Adapter doesn't work with the Tivo in this deal. Was able to use an old ipaq Compaq USB adapter without any problem though!
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,009
4,370
136
Originally posted by: Hork
Originally posted by: Hork
Thought people might want to know that CompUSA has a Belkin 802.11b USB Wireless Adapter on sale for $9.99 AR right now. Model F5D6051. It's one of the ones that looks like a USB key, but it also has a small base with a connector you can use with it to position it wherever you want. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can get it to work with the Tivo. I thought this was a pretty good deal and others who got into this deal might want to take advantage of it.

Found out this USB Wireless Adapter doesn't work with the Tivo in this deal. Was able to use an old ipaq Compaq USB adapter without any problem though!

The Belkin F5D6050 adapter does work (I' m using one on my TiVo) and it is also on sale at CompUSA for $9.99 here.
 
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