You are not buying games on Steam, you are only renting them. DRM is evil

[Puppies04]

If steam had just pulled the game from the store they would be blameless.

I have no idea why they decided to delete the game from peoples libraries, a simple email to the people who had purchased the game stating that Square had shut down the servers would have surfficed.

 

[Elixer]

This sets a dangerous precedent for Steam.

There are many games on steam that use steamworks DRM on top of their own DRM.
Usually, that DRM requires "activation" of some sort, and if they turn off the activation servers, then what ?
Will Steam say "well, you couldn't play it anyway, so *poof*" it goes! ?
There are ways around the activation servers, if you still have said game, however, if one day you launch Steam, and see that it is missing, then you are forced to pirate the full game, instead of getting the deprotected executable.

If you use Steam's backup feature for the game, it will still be deleted once you try to install it again.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Did anyone read the update? The game is still in people's library just the online portion of it has been removed because the servers powering it were shut off. The 18 single player missions are still available.

 

[imaheadcase]

It's not their fault the game is no longer playable due to the online DRM, it is their fault for the PR backlash with removing it from people's libraries. I don't see the big advantage Valve gained by doing this. Had the game simply not worked nobody would have given two squirts about this. So in that sense Valve has created this story by taking unnecessary actions against the owner's libraries.

The game did not work, what does it matter if they removed it or not..

 

[Daverino]

Did they just remove it from the launcher? Or did they physically erase it from disk?

In other words, if I went to /home/program files/steam/steamapps/common/this_game/ are the files going to still be there?

 

[BSim500]

Did anyone read the update? The game is still in people's library just the online portion of it has been removed because the servers powering it were shut off. The 18 single player missions are still available.

Have they actually "left" some content in, or were the mentioned single-player missions part of the original game (Order of War) anyway but they've scrapped the whole multi-player expansion (Order of War: Challenge)? The Forbes update claims the 18-missions were part of the deleted game, but Forbe's link to Square Enix clearly shows the 18 single-player missions were part of the original OOW that wasn't deleted, not the expansion (that was). If it's the latter they haven't really left anything in, they've just deleted one purchase (OOWC expansion) instead of two purchases (OOW + OOWC expansion)...

The game did not work, what does it matter if they removed it or not..

You seriously don't see the hugely bad precedent in retailers forcibly deleting games you've bought from your account?...

 

[Markbnj]

If anything, this is a commentary on the DRM practices followed by the publisher. If you don't like those practices, don't buy those games. Steam did the only reasonable thing they could do.

 

[alcoholbob]

Well I'm not an attorney but it seems there's nothing for the consumer protection laws to protect. Most EULAs state that by using the software you agree to the terms set forth therein, however one sided that might be. All of those little "I Accept" buttons that everyone clicks seals the deal does it not? I'm not advocating it's good practice, just making an observation and I agree it's good for the corporations not for the consumers.

Even if you click an EULA that says "I accept Bobby Kotick can come to my house and shoot me in the head" I'm pretty sure the police won't care and still press murder charges on him.

 

[gothamhunter]

I see no issue. A non-playable game was removed from people's library. It also looks like most of them got it for free anyways since they owned the original.

I would rather them do this than have however many people keep trying to play it and be unable to and start blaming Valve for it, even though it wouldn't be their fault.

Hell, I have LOTRO installed and in my list. If they shut down the LOTRO servers IDGAF if they remove it from being playable.

Ya'll are too prone to tinfoil hats.

 

[HeXen]

You license all games. You agree to that license. IF they broke the EULA then get a lawyer.
Honestly I wish they would remove Nexius and beta Nexius since it's unplayable.

 

[JamesV]

How about EA shutting down servers for their sports games only a few years after they are released? Even if you had a physical copy, the end result is the same as them deleting it off your PC - you cannot play it.

I remember when the original Tribes master server list was taken down. Instead of it being the death of the game, you were able to plug in the address for a user-created master server list; effectively giving the players the ability to extend the game's life as long as they had interest in doing so - more publishers should follow that example.

 

[Elixer]

How about EA shutting down servers for their sports games only a few years after they are released? Even if you had a physical copy, the end result is the same as them deleting it off your PC - you cannot play it.

I remember when the original Tribes master server list was taken down. Instead of it being the death of the game, you were able to plug in the address for a user-created master server list; effectively giving the players the ability to extend the game's life as long as they had interest in doing so - more publishers should follow that example.

This is why DRM is evil, it doesn't matter which company is behind it.
It can stop legitimate owners from playing a game they bought.

The only place I know that has DRM free games is GOG.com

If the day comes that Valve goes under, I can see them only fixing their games to not need steam in online mode. The rest of the games on their would be useless.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I think the main concern is for single player games. Obviously for online only games there is a completely different precedent. One could argue that it shouldn't matter and that if they'd make it so you could make your own servers you could play those games indefinitely, but then you could also say, well you wanted "ease of use" so deal with those servers that they aren't going to support forever.

I'm more concerned about single player games with unneeded online requirements solely used for DRM and (becoming more frequent) marketing. While we can try to argue the legal aspect of ToS and EULA, if this ever happens, there WILL be a big deal created out of it and a new era will have arrived where if the publishers think they are "hurting" now, they will learn a new level of pain. It's already been shown that with the internet and the speed at which word and gang mentality prevails companies really need to approach things carefully.

Planned obsolescence simply so you can resell the exact same game again later on a different platform (which is also becoming more common) is not acceptable. We aren't quite to THAT level yet obviously, but we aren't far from it. I realize there are many people who could care less about playing a 20 year old game, but those people should also realize there are many people who do want to.

 

[irishScott]

*yawn* Call me when they do it for a functional game. Steam has saved me mucho money and headaches over the years compared to disc-based games, and if they actually do go Nazi and start taking away people's games for stupid reasons, it will only hurt their business and cause new sources to emerge/become more popular.

That said, possibilities like that are one reason I'll buy a game on GOG rather than Steam given the option.

 

[futurefields]

Meh.

Pretty sure Steam/Valve will be around longer than my fleshy bag of blood will. Also, this particulat game was online-only and had been shut down by Square, so those who had the game would have been unable to play it anyways. So this is more Square's bad than Steam's.

 

[Lonyo]

Meh.

Pretty sure Steam/Valve will be around longer than my fleshy bag of blood will. Also, this particulat game was online-only and had been shut down by Square, so those who had the game would have been unable to play it anyways. So this is more Square's bad than Steam's.

Really?
So, which terminal disease do you have?

 

[NickelPlate]

Even if you click an EULA that says "I accept Bobby Kotick can come to my house and shoot me in the head" I'm pretty sure the police won't care and still press murder charges on him.

That's a stupid comparison and you know it. Point out one EULA with criminal activity verbage and then come back and tell us all about it.

This thread has become quite amusing actually. Lots of crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories running amok. It's like an X-FILES episode on Anand. All over a bunch of silly PC games.

"Oh the horror if I can't play some game in the future because they shut the servers down!!" LMAO

 

[Fanatical Meat]

*yawn* Call me when they do it for a functional game. Steam has saved me mucho money and headaches over the years compared to disc-based games, and if they actually do go Nazi and start taking away people's games for stupid reasons, it will only hurt their business and cause new sources to emerge/become more popular.

That said, possibilities like that are one reason I'll buy a game on GOG rather than Steam given the option.

I'm with you Scott. I know I've lost at least 5 CD keys over the years steam removes all that madness.

 

[futurefields]

Really?
So, which terminal disease do you have?

So, the same one you do. It's called aging.

So, Nintendo is a 130 year old company and still kicking. I see no reason to think why Valve won't have the same type of longevity.

So, anybody could die at any time, doesn't even have to be a terminal disease.

So, there's something very snide about starting a sentence with "So" isn't there?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Steam & Gabe have enough money to be around for essentially as long as there are PC's to game on. I get the point that Gabe may want to retire at some point and who knows what will happen at that time, however I am not concerned about it. As I said before I have lost too many game keys I know steam is a better route for me.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Well I'm not an attorney but it seems there's nothing for the consumer protection laws to protect. Most EULAs state that by using the software you agree to the terms set forth therein, however one sided that might be. All of those little "I Accept" buttons that everyone clicks seals the deal does it not? I'm not advocating it's good practice, just making an observation and I agree it's good for the corporations not for the consumers.

A contract that allows or requires illegal acts on both parties is void and will not be enforced by law, regardless of whether you hit accept on a digital form, or sign the physical contract with your own blood. Thus is called an Illegal Agreement.

As for Valve, as is already mentioned in the ToS, the games are leased to you under the terms that the leases can be retracted at any time, for any reason, and are legally not considered your property to begin with. You simply paid for a lease, the duration of which is determined at Valve's discretion. Nothing illegal going on. It's worthy to note though that Valve is far from the only company to practice similar policies, and far more stringent at that. Autodesk, for example, has a clause that lets them audit you and your company for compliance of your contract. In the case of online DRM games, the software basically audits itself at launch, again, nothing illegal so long as the game is implied as a lease rather than as your own property.

On a final note, the sngle-player portion of Order Of War is still available on Steam, so even morally, Valve has done little wrong as of yet.

 

[Nintendesert]

That's a stupid comparison and you know it. Point out one EULA with criminal activity verbage and then come back and tell us all about it.

This thread has become quite amusing actually. Lots of crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theories running amok. It's like an X-FILES episode on Anand. All over a bunch of silly PC games.

"Oh the horror if I can't play some game in the future because they shut the servers down!!" LMAO

Tin foil hat? Are you just trying to be ignorant and insulting? There's already a very extensive list of games that aren't playable anymore because servers have been shut down. GFWL is the latest DRM scheme that has had the plug pulled and every game using it will either get patched to work without it or won't function anymore. This isn't tin-foil hat stuff, it's stuff happening now and already has happened.

While this game isn't that big a deal, the precedent that Valve has set with it is however. They have now demonstrated a willingness to do something they had up to this point never done. Functional game or not. There's already plenty of criticism over their non-existent return policy and the shilling of obvious cash grab alpha scams. This is just another move in a direction that isn't beneficial to the customers. Companies are good up until they aren't.

(As for the longevity of Steam, the real test will be when Gabe finally has a coronary and what happens after that. That'll be a scary day.)

 

[Anteaus]

I'm not getting in the middle of this but I wanted to throw this out there.

"Update: It appears that contrary to what I first believed, the single-player portion of the game—Order of War without the “Challenge”—is still available on Steam, and only the multi-player content has been removed."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...e-order-of-war-challenge-from-user-libraries/

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yea, that was mentioned earlier.

But while we are at it. Steam is down. Like really down. You can't access any games you didn't have set to offline mode.

EDIT: Back up.

 

[Anteaus]

Yea, that was mentioned earlier.

But while we are at it. Steam is down. Like really down. You can't access any games you didn't have set to offline mode.

Yeah I just noticed that. Steam probably took someone's game away so they created mass hysteria, prompting a large scan DDoS attack on Steam. Or maybe not.