You are not buying games on Steam, you are only renting them. DRM is evil

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ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,092
123
106
Let me chime in with my frustration.... Bought Far Cry 3 on Steam, but it has "double drm" because it uses uPlay. Fucking uPlay requires an always on connection, and it constantly takes time to update every time I start the game or upload my saves to server or whatever. But what if I dont want any of it?! Too bad! I have to deal with it anyway... This is soooo frustrating. Why cant I just disable uPlay? Why cant I just play the game through steam?! At first the darn thing was working, but now I cant even play? uPlay glitches out and says I need to check my connection because it cant connect ot server... But my connection is fine!
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Let me chime in with my frustration.... Bought Far Cry 3 on Steam, but it has "double drm" because it uses uPlay. Fucking uPlay requires an always on connection, and it constantly takes time to update every time I start the game or upload my saves to server or whatever. But what if I dont want any of it?! Too bad! I have to deal with it anyway... This is soooo frustrating. Why cant I just disable uPlay? Why cant I just play the game through steam?! At first the darn thing was working, but now I cant even play? uPlay glitches out and says I need to check my connection because it cant connect ot server... But my connection is fine!

STFU GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY AND DEAL WITH IT! GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT MAN? PAYING FOR GAMES YOU WANT THAT ARE HASSLEFREE?? SO DAMNED DEMANDING!

sorry...someone was going to say it, so I just did it for them. I had the same issue with Rocksmith, man it pissed me off. Sometime in the last week or so though it had an update and all that stopped. Now uplay only pops up after exiting the game....at least for now so it's a little better. If I didn't like Rocksmith so well I would have skipped it after the Trials Evolution incident made me want to bomb their corporate office.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,096
0
81
Eh - it's mainly a price/loss issue for me with regards to buying games from STEAM.

If the price of the game is low enough for me to accept it as a loss should it vanish from my inventory some day -then that's ok. Lately however I've been checking to see if a DRM free version is price about the same as I want the option to be able to install the game anytime/anywhere I please [especially games which I can install/play on my work laptop ]
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
You license all games. You agree to that license. IF they broke the EULA then get a lawyer.
If you agreed to pay for the game, then received it, it's a shrink-wrap license, and that has been struck down every time it's gone to court in the U.S. thus far. IoW, no, you do not have to agree to that license. A few companies, like Microsoft, are smart, and have a condensed version of the license restrictions freely readable on the package, linked from most online vendor pages, and sometimes even readable in product pictures, so as to prevent that particular concern on their end. Also, if the EULA violates any law, then you effectively were never allowed to agree to those terms, as they were invalid to begin with. And yes, Steam games have such shrink-wrap licenses. I have a few of them, now, that came in a box, with a regular old invoice, and no license viewable until long after payment.

I'll pay more for a game on GoG, and avoided even having a Steam account for a very long time--until I bought a boxed Steamworks game. But, if a dev wants to use Steam, and have some DRM, I don't hate them for it. I'd prefer if they didn't, as it wastes money and time, can annoy paying customers, and does not stop, nor even remotely hinder, piracy. I will support publishers not using it. But I provided it is a good game--or I think it will be--and the publisher of said game has a good track record of support, I will also not avoid the game. I will avoid paying full price, though (ironically, GoG has enough sales that I usually pay well under full price, even for games where I would have paid full price, had it not gone on sale so soon, or on sale as a pre-order). If they have a poor track record, I consider their added DRM, and bugginess, and whatever else, symptomatic of that, and will give a Nelson ha-ha and point laugh to those that bought it.

You're not just buying a game, but a surrounding infrastructure, which may include DRM by another company getting in your way. Sometimes, it just annoys the shit out of me. But, other times, I'll skip a game just because I don't want to spend my limited leisure time fucking around with some half-assed EA or whoever else's DRM that doesn't want to work, or causes the game to load slowly. I work five days a week, and sometimes on the weekends. It's not even worth the risk of it, IMO, if I see reports of such BS.

Overall, it looks like Valve acted reasonably, and the core problem is that the original developer/publisher did not support the end users as they needed to have. Be wary of Square, be wary of EA, and be wary of Ubisoft. Watch Activison/Blizzard carefully. Research the DRM on your purchases, and the publisher's history, if any.

In the end, a solid legal framework, including consumer protections, for works which are not tied to physical copies is the only solution that's going to be worth anything, regardless of the DRM debate. As it is, the E.U.'s allowing of reselling digital copies is the full extent of any protection you have from any action by the distributor or publisher, today. You are entirely relying on their good faith. Factor this into your choice of what you buy, where you buy it, how much you are willing to pay, etc..
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
I've never had an issue with a game on Steam that also had Uplay; not even with GFWL titles. Lucky?

They need to come up with a new title for the type of DRM Steam is; because DRM always brings to my mind things like Securom and others that have driven me mad. I can't play my games without Steam running, but I also get the overlay, forums, auto-updates, sales, etc, etc...
 

Dankk

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2008
5,558
25
91
I've never had an issue with a game on Steam that also had Uplay; not even with GFWL titles. Lucky?

They need to come up with a new title for the type of DRM Steam is; because DRM always brings to my mind things like Securom and others that have driven me mad. I can't play my games without Steam running, but I also get the overlay, forums, auto-updates, sales, etc, etc...

There is such a thing as good, well-implemented DRM. Steam is an example of that. No need to rename anything.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I like a game that just plain works. Nothing special needed in the background, not even disc checks. Thats why DOS was so awesome. Its why I love GOG, even though they have a tiny selection.
 

georgec84

Senior member
May 9, 2011
234
0
71
I like a game that just plain works. Nothing special needed in the background, not even disc checks. Thats why DOS was so awesome. Its why I love GOG, even though they have a tiny selection.
Same here. GOG rules.

They just need to land another big deal with a company like LucasArts/Disney or Take Two.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Let me chime in with my frustration.... Bought Far Cry 3 on Steam, but it has "double drm" because it uses uPlay. Fucking uPlay requires an always on connection, and it constantly takes time to update every time I start the game or upload my saves to server or whatever. But what if I dont want any of it?! Too bad! I have to deal with it anyway... This is soooo frustrating. Why cant I just disable uPlay? Why cant I just play the game through steam?! At first the darn thing was working, but now I cant even play? uPlay glitches out and says I need to check my connection because it cant connect ot server... But my connection is fine!

I noticed that too. My solution is not to play Far Cry 3.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
2,846
4
81
As of right now Ive been very happy with steam's drm, and I have a good amount of trust in Valve to not screw me. My biggest concern at the moment is more drm tacked on top - kind of like what just happened.

In the past I didnt really care about extra drm, but now im very conscious of not buying games with more bullshit ok top of steam. I now use the enhanced steam extension if anyone hasnt heard of it - and it warns you about other drm and a bunch of other helpful things as well.

Im wondering how many more games will be removed after GFWL closes down in July. I have quite a few in my steam library and if I lose any im going to be pretty pissed. Hopefully enough people will be as well, and Valve will have to address it. If they sold the game, they have to be accountable for a refund if I cant play it. I know games are being transferred to steamworks, but I own a bunch of smaller games too that are GFWL.
 
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PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
A lot of speculation going on here regarding the future. It's all crystal ball stuff nobody knows what's going to happen but the facts are Steam has been around now for over 10 years and Half Life 2 is coming up on its 10th year anniversary. And you can still play it just fine. Steam is also the largest digital distribution network worldwide. Valve has stated that they would make provisions for people to continue to play their games if Steam ever got shutdown.

The lack of any concrete information on the legal issues regarding this and lack of details about "provisions" other than a few very old posts by Gabe on the steam forums from a decade ago make me question this heavily. Valve is a LLC so with limited liability any issues they have the owners could just walk away from leaving all customers/partners screwed.

Now I'm not saying this will happen but it's a fair discussion point, I think valve will just go from strength to strength, my primary concern isn't them failing but eventually going from a privately owned company to one with investors and pressure to basically dick of their entire customer base, I genuinely hope that doesn't happen, my steam library is 350+ games now.

The only thing that really comforts me is that steam to many people, including myself, is just a formality, almost everyone knows how to pirate games and we've never seen any DRM ever made that's stayed resistant to scene groups.

The simply FACT of reality in this age is that paying for software to get the legit version is completely optional, if steam was to go down or introduce systems and changes that are discouraging to gamers it would be a mild inconvenience for many to simply pirate their games.

It's not so much that I trust, valve, despite their excellent track record I absolutely do not trust them (or anyone, for that matter) but the fact is that it's trivial to recover these games and as technology advances it will only ever become more trivial to do it (to quote Cory Doctorow "Bits will only ever get easier to copy") and people will only ever be more educated on how to pirate.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I just discovered that I can't play Max Payne 3 due to some sort of CD Key problem. After checking the Steam forum, apparently no one has been able to play for 3 weeks now.
 

slpnshot

Senior member
Dec 1, 2011
305
2
81
I've never had an issue with a game on Steam that also had Uplay; not even with GFWL titles. Lucky?

They need to come up with a new title for the type of DRM Steam is; because DRM always brings to my mind things like Securom and others that have driven me mad. I can't play my games without Steam running, but I also get the overlay, forums, auto-updates, sales, etc, etc...

For the most part I don't really care about DRM. Yes, it's annoying having to go through steam to play a Uplay game if you bought it over steam... But as long as I can play the game just fine, I don't really care.

That said, I ended up having wireless issues recently and kept getting kicked out of Arkham Asylum with a 'network not found' warning. That was pretty annoying. Not being able to play a single player game because of network issues...
 
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