You can't have my guns.

[Farmer]

Repeat previous statement about the prevalence of firearms in the UK. I would only be worried about them possibly having firearms if they took every opportunity they could get to preach the positive aspects of firearm ownership, like some people on this forum.

Well no. If you lived in America, your neighbors would have the right to legally own firearms. You probably would never know if they actually kept a gun or not.

If you don't trust the US police with firearms, then surely you should be calling for greater accountability of firearm usage by them? More training perhaps?

Who knows? Regardless of how much training they are supposed to get, I would not trust a stranger more than myself or a person I knew. Regardless of how well trained or well intentioned the police might be, I am not happy if I have to depend solely on them when my life is in danger.

Why on earth would I trust the average person with a convenient tool for killing people?

Then why do you trust an average person with anything? You make it seem like responsible gun ownership is like string theory or being the chairman of the fed.

Do you have any experience using firearms? An average person can drive a car 90MPH a highway without running over anyone. An average person can not stab someone when dicing vegetables. An average person can own many baseball clubs without smacking people in the head with one. Why do you not believe that an average person can responsibly own and carry a gun for self defense, without for whatever reason endangering those around him?

 

[mikeymikec]

Washington DC had a 25% decrease in violent crime, 16% decrease in sexual assaults, and 10% decrease in car thefts, 1 year after removing the bans on handgun ownership.

On the flipside, when Chicago implemented its gun ban, homicides increased 41% over a decade, compared to only 18% across the rest of the US. Likewise, short term studies for Chicago show gun crime falling after the repeal of the ban.

Great. It's not an answer to my question.

As I've already said in this thread, I don't think a ban on firearms for the average citizen would work, unless there's overwhelming support for it (more than say 95%), and even then it is problematic.

What I find weird is how so many people see firearms ownership as a wonderful thing that helps boost their sense of self-worth/whatever, and how if everyone had a firearm it would fix everything. Such people seem to ignore the existence of people in other developed countries that don't seem to need access to firearms in order to maintain a reasonable level of order.

I would have though that even most people, American or not, gun-owner or not, would read the OP and think "I'm worried about this person".

 

[Farmer]

What I find weird is how so many people see firearms ownership as a wonderful thing that helps boost their sense of self-worth/whatever, and how if everyone had a firearm it would fix everything. Such people seem to ignore the existence of people in other developed countries that don't seem to need access to firearms in order to maintain a reasonable level of order.

Who ever said that, of all the people replying to you? Or is this just some preconceived notion you have of gun owners?

Have you ever been in the United States? Do you know how diverse this country is? Groups of people coexists despite having vastly different ideologies. Civil wars have been started in other countries for less. Perhaps what works in the UK does not work in the US for the thousands of other reason besides the fact that the US has more guns.

 

[sixone]

What I find weird is how so many people see firearms ownership as a wonderful thing that helps boost their sense of self-worth/whatever, and how if everyone had a firearm it would fix everything.

I haven't seen anyone post anything like that. Links, please?

 

[sandorski]

If you have a fire extinguisher in your house are you afraid of fire? Or being intelligent enough to have the proper tools to put a fire out?

Are you not afraid of fire? :\

 

[TallBill]

Nobody said anything about everyone having a gun. Having a choice is a great thing.

 

[mikeymikec]

I haven't seen anyone post anything like that. Links, please?

Check out the OP, and also there's been at least one person in this thread who has said that it would fix so many problems if more people were packing. Every single gun control thread has it mentioned in. Someone (friend of a friend) on FB also said it today, so that one is difficult to post

Yes, I have been to the US. No, I did not say that "all/most people in the US are like this". Yes, I have had experience using firearms.

 

[TehMac]

Guns do not make you Safer, they make you less Safe.

...said Hitler to the Jews (and later the German nation).

...and Mao to the Chinese.

...and Stalin to the Russian people.

...and the Samurai to the rice farmers.


Taking guns away from law abiding citizens only further empowers criminals and the criminally insane, be they lone-man acts or entire governments.

I would have though that even most people, American or not, gun-owner or not, would read the OP and think "I'm worried about this person".

There's no real answer to your question without first addressing your own mental deficiencies.

 

[OverVolt]

Don't take my jerb gurnnsss

 

[sandorski]

...said Hitler to the Jews (and later the German nation).

...and Mao to the Chinese.

...and Stalin to the Russian people.

...and the Samurai to the rice farmers.


Taking guns away from law abiding citizens only further empowers criminals and the criminally insane, be they lone-man acts or entire governments.




There's no real answer to your question without first addressing your own mental deficiencies.

Got a good deal on Non Sequiturs?

 

[mikeymikec]

Taking guns away from law abiding citizens only further empowers criminals and the criminally insane, be they lone-man acts or entire governments.

Go TehMac, go take on a government with your guns. It'll be amazing.

 

[sixone]

Check out the OP, and also there's been at least one person in this thread who has said that it would fix so many problems if more people were packing. Every single gun control thread has it mentioned in. Someone (friend of a friend) on FB also said it today, so that one is difficult to post

Yes, I have been to the US. No, I did not say that "all/most people in the US are like this". Yes, I have had experience using firearms.

So three people = so many? and fixing some problems = fixing everything?

You're seeing what you want to see, not what so many people are saying.

 

[OverVolt]

Go TehMac, go take on a government with your guns. It'll be amazing.

You are quite dense. Remember when the Nazi's would streamroll over a Jewish town and play mind games with the populace so that they would rat on each other? Going house by house and taking people by force?

Its not an actual army engagement. It would force the Nazi's to either just bombard Jewish homes and show their true form or leave them alone. Support for the war would fall apart if they bombed civilians since everyone would know it was wrong. Thats why they hid the genocide in camps. Or they would be forced leave the Jews alone.

Crikey you are dense. Did you ever take history?

 

[Farmer]

Check out the OP, and also there's been at least one person in this thread who has said that it would fix so many problems if more people were packing. Every single gun control thread has it mentioned in. Someone (friend of a friend) on FB also said it today, so that one is difficult to post

Yes, I have been to the US. No, I did not say that "all/most people in the US are like this". Yes, I have had experience using firearms.

So then I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[mikeymikec]

You are quite dense. Remember when the Nazi's would streamroll over a Jewish town and play mind games with the populace so that they would rat on each other? Going house by house and taking people by force?

Its not an actual army engagement. It would force the Nazi's to either just bombard Jewish homes and show their true form. Support for the war would fall apart. Or be forced leave the Jews alone.

Crikey you are dense. Did you ever take history?

So you don't think that the Nazis showed their true form by rounding up Jews and incarcerating them? You really think it would have made a difference to public opinion if they had to use greater measures of force?

I think you're being naive and yet you acknowledge the mind games that were being played.

 

[OverVolt]

So you don't think that the Nazis showed their true form by rounding up Jews and incarcerating them? You really think it would have made a difference to public opinion if they had to use greater measures of force?

I think you're being naive and yet you acknowledge the mind games that were being played.

Cant really hide a crater that used to be a town.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Great. It's not an answer to my question.

As I've already said in this thread, I don't think a ban on firearms for the average citizen would work, unless there's overwhelming support for it (more than say 95%), and even then it is problematic.

What I find weird is how so many people see firearms ownership as a wonderful thing that helps boost their sense of self-worth/whatever, and how if everyone had a firearm it would fix everything. Such people seem to ignore the existence of people in other developed countries that don't seem to need access to firearms in order to maintain a reasonable level of order.

I would have though that even most people, American or not, gun-owner or not, would read the OP and think "I'm worried about this person".

Question I answered in bold:

Great. So why do you suppose that gun crime is much higher in the US than in most developed countries?

Could it be that the average person having access to firearms is acting as an effective deterrent?

I provided an answer to one of your questions. You are for some reason constantly changing what you're looking for. You also only mention 2 people in this thread (and I think one doesn't match) who even come close to aspiring to what you say in your own post is "so many people". So why are you lieing? Where is your proof that "so many people" (as in my mind would represent a majority) are behaving in the way you mention?

Maybe the reason you are having such difficulty getting an answer to your question is because you keep changing it.

 

[Veliko]

Well, then, people of the UK in your case. I am not asking your opinion of Americans specifically, I am saying what your opinion is of people you meet in the course of your life. Do you find them so untrustworthy and so incompetent that you feel giving them the right to own a firearm would be irresponsible?

Yes, it is irresponsible to allow widespread availability of firearms as is the case in the US.

 

[Farmer]

Yes, it is irresponsible to allow widespread availability of firearms as is the case in the US.

Then who should be allowed the right to own firearms, and who should be denied that right?

 

[Veliko]

You are quite dense. Remember when the Nazi's would streamroll over a Jewish town and play mind games with the populace so that they would rat on each other? Going house by house and taking people by force?

Its not an actual army engagement. It would force the Nazi's to either just bombard Jewish homes and show their true form or leave them alone. Support for the war would fall apart if they bombed civilians since everyone would know it was wrong. Thats why they hid the genocide in camps. Or they would be forced leave the Jews alone.

Crikey you are dense. Did you ever take history?

It takes a special kind of mong to try and shoehorn the Holocaust into this.

 

[Veliko]

Then who should be allowed the right to own firearms, and who should be denied that right?

No idea off the top of my head.

 

[mikeymikec]

Cant really hide a crater that used to be a town.

So the only two options available would be:

1) sending troops in the front door
2) bombing the town

Really?

I'll come up with a few for you:

3) A grenade through each window, then send in the troops
4) clear out the neighbouring buildings, plant a bomb in the house containing "objectionable citizens", then invent a story that they were terrorists or something
5) Attack with chemical agents

Or a combination of any of those possibilities. I'm failing to see how public gun ownership would have helped.

 

[OverVolt]

It takes a special kind of mong to try and shoehorn the Holocaust into this.

You guys brought up the 2a. If the point of the 2a doesn't sink in with that example, I don't know what will.

@mikeymikec if they were capable of fighting back it would have been too costly to try and capture every single person. I don't know why you are trying to dance around it. They would probably lose a soldier or two for every home they raided if it were armed and it would kill morale.

 

[waggy]

Then who should be allowed the right to own firearms, and who should be denied that right?

1) you get diagnosed with a mental illness

2) you get convicted of a violent crime

IF you have a history of a mental illness we should be doing more then ignoring you.

we also need real firearm training. people are afraid of what they dont' know.

 

[Iron Woode]

So you don't think that the Nazis showed their true form by rounding up Jews and incarcerating them? You really think it would have made a difference to public opinion if they had to use greater measures of force?

I think you're being naive and yet you acknowledge the mind games that were being played.

wow.

The Nazi's showed their true form when they murdered one of their own and made him a martyr for their cause.

They showed their true form by blaming the Jews for the depression.

They showed their true form when they forced themselves into power. They were never elected.

They showed it again with Kristallnacht.

they used greater measures of force constantly against Jews. The people supported it more than most Westerners were/are willing to admit.