You can't have my guns.

[SheHateMe]

Some are frightened by animate spiders and snakes. Let's ban animate and inanimate objects alike, anything that faciliates frightening the weak and cowardly amongst us.

Yes, because spiders and snakes are sold as weapons.


Kill yourself.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh, asking for Gun CONTROL, not a BAN vs this bullshit

YOU CAN'T HAVE MY GUNS


Sickening.

The op doesn't use the word "ban" even once. I thought your point was about the politicization of a tragedy.

 

[bradley]

Yes, because spiders and snakes are sold as weapons.


Kill yourself.

Point: there's a better chance of being killed by a spider and snake (on its own volition) than a partnerless gun. The government's reward society isn't going to protect you from real life risks, no matter how much you are inculcated otherwise. Being a vociferous troll doesn't make you a good one. Right back at ya.

 

[abba]

I think much of the reluctance to forfeit or even limit gun ownership here in the US, more so than other countries, stems from the historical events that led to our nation's founding. Imagine if the English gov't had strict gun control for its civilians during the 18th century. Let's assume that all powder guns were illegal, including muskets, which would have left bows and arrows along with swords as the most formidable combat weaponry. Does anyone really believe that the American Revolution would have been successful if the rebel troops had been forced to use this hardware while the Redcoats had access to their usual rifles and canons?

Even if powder weapons were not completely outlawed but instead were required to posses some sort of intricate loading/priming process that effectively doubled the time to reload the gun, it likely would have been impossible for the colonists to successfully overcome this handicap in battle. I think it's fairly safe to say that, had any measurable gun control existed 250 years ago, our country would not be around today.

Of course, you can make the argument that times are different now, and Americans have no need to revolt against the authority of our country, which is true. However, what about 200-300 years from now? It's impossible to say what things will look like then, but I'm sure English citizens never foresaw the need to take such drastic action 200 years before it actually occurred. Likewise, we cannot say with certainty that a similar need will not arise in our future. So while many gun owners may be fighting for their rights of the present, they are also keeping that right open for upcoming generations who may require it.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Who gives a shit about guns. Crazy people are the problem. We need an amendment that allows us to euthanize the mentally unfit. Problem solved.

 

[rudeguy]

First off I need to say that I don't have the words to express how much the tragedy in CT hurts me. I am a parent, a regular volunteer at my son's school and a Christian. I also regularly talk to people from Newtown as they are a city my company services. Its a terrible thing that man did.

Every time something like this happens, both sides of the issue go wild. The anti-gun people start calling for the banning of every gun. The pro-gun (me) people start preaching about how their guns will never be taken away from them. Its sick because it takes away from the real issue: a mentally unstable person was allowed access to guns. In this case it sounds like he used his mother's own gun to murder her and then do what he did.

If he had gotten the help he needed, this would not have happened. I am not talking about going to see a therapist (seeing a psychiatrist is damn near impossible nowadays). I'm talking about a serious evaluation and intense follow up. I don't know all the details of what help he did get but its obvious whatever help he did get was not enough.

So please everyone, lets not make this into a gun debate. Lets memorialize the victims. Lets look at our mental health system. Lets all pray, love each other and be there for someone who needs you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Some are frightened by animate spiders and snakes. Let's ban animate and inanimate objects alike, anything that faciliates frightening the weak and cowardly amongst us.

Ah, the "I'm going to try and label those with an opposing argument as cowards" tactic.

The topic of gun control is more complicated than rhetoric such as "guns don't kill people, people do" or "a gun is just a tool" or "the world would be a lot safer without guns", etc.

One point that I doubt that anyone could argue with is that with the amount of guns in America, legally owned or otherwise, and also the amount of people who are pro gun ownership, a ban of almost any form would not work. There are many reasons why it wouldn't work, for example, those who illegally own firearms are unlikely to change their point of view, they're already breaking the law. The reactions of legal gun owners is going to be affected by the previous group of people I mentioned as well, and there's also the "you'll have to pry my guns out of my cold, dead hands" category. The general opinion in America would have to change overwhelmingly in favour of some sort of ban for it to possibly work.

Point: there's a better chance of being killed by a spider and snake (on its own volition) than a partnerless gun.

Wow, really? Your contributions to this discussion are so insightful. And there was me thinking that the problem with guns is that guns keep becoming self-aware and going around and shooting people

@ abba

Your points are at least more interesting than bradley's. I think the likelihood of the people in any developed country needing to lead a revolt against the government lessens over time, but also whether guns are generally available isn't actually much of a factor in this scenario. Take the UK in a hypothetical example - a situation has developed in that the government has become tyrannical, and a massive percentage of the people want to take part in an uprising. There are nowhere near the amount of forces available to the government to counter such a large number of people, and even if there was, could they really all be counted on not to join the rebellion? When there are that many people ready to rebel, does it really matter whether the masses normally have access to guns or not? The tactics would be just the same in the UK or US, because the US government in such a situation would break out the heavier weaponry not available to the masses, and the masses would stage covert efforts in such a situation to get hold of that weaponry.

Its sick because it takes away from the real issue: a mentally unstable person was allowed access to guns

But that is always going to happen, no matter how careful a vetting procedure you have! You can't stop it completely. Even in a country where guns aren't available to the masses like they are in the US it's still possible for a nutjob to get hold of a gun. However, the likelihood is somewhat less.

 

[BladeVenom]

The media shouldn't give the event so much attention. They increase copycat crimes.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Right, because nobody but me can see the fucking threads on this tragedy and the comments about people aren't going to give up their guns.

Emotional banter? I'm sorry, its just that my heart is broken that small children have become the latest victims of yet another shooting in which LEGALLY purchased weapons were used to murder....and yet again, the gun crowd tries to absolve guns of responsibility. Remember, Guns don't kill people. It's great to hear that yet again, you guys don't give a shit and never will. Can't wait to see who the next group of victims are.


My bad.

No logic at all.

Problem is your stating you're separating the two subjects of the incident and gun control and yet in fact you are not. You are touting gun control on the same band wagon and in turn calling out those who have an opposing opinion.

Do you honestly think the folks on here that are worried that their rights will be further violated because of someone else's crime aren't upset or bothered by this horrific act? You don't know me and I don't even own a gun. I do however believe in logic and understand that anything, gun or not, can be utilized by a person to commit violence. When guns discharge all by themselves then you'll have a legitimate argument.

Should there be further screening for those seeking to obtain a gun...perhaps. Is the current methodology inadequate....perhaps. But don't proclaim that control and abolishment are totally different because they both are potentially illegal and violate the Constitution.

You and many others have not defined what gun control is although some have made it clear that abolishing fire arms is just a matter of fact way forward.

Yea, it is your bad and yes you are spewing emotional banter about gun control as well.

 

[grrl]

Shouldn't this be in P&N?

 

[Perknose]

If morons with guns would stop committing horrific acts with their guns maybe people wouldn't mind letting you have them.

Better yet, maybe you should try selling your bullshit diatribe to one of the parents of a child who was murdered today.

20 fucking kids were killed... in seconds. Honestly, if you had half a fucking brain you'd shut the fuck up about gun rights now.

In short, fuck off.

I got just this far in this thread, so I'll echo what another said about a deeply different post: Well quoted.

Sorry for the anger, responsible gun owners, but many of you are RESPONSIBLE for our society's insane lack of response to this public health problem, because of your INSANE and PARANOID fear that someone is coming to take away your guns.

No one is.

Get the fuck over it, and join the rest of us in helping to make our country just a little bit saner and safer.

Please.

 

[Generator]

I posted this some years ago in another thread. I feel like it needs repeating now more than ever since gun owners are once again under attack by morons.

Before I destroy everything you believe yourself to be. I want to congratulate you on still being alive since the last time you posted your manifesto. Its not often I read madness and come away feeling embarrassed for another person and their family. I implore you this Christmas to share who you are with your family, I want you to look at their eyes and read their reactions to the horrors that come from your mouth.

I believe in my right to poke holes in you should you try to take away my freedom in any way.

This man will kill. Society only hope is that he judges truly and justly until old of age, clear of mind, that his freedoms are also our freedoms. He will fail and bullets will fly...

I am a gun owner. I will always be a gun owner.

I believe this man. He rather die with a gun in his hand than be a family man. His Mayan calendar ends when he can no longer hold his gun. Like those Mayans, he is insane.

a gun is a symbol of my ability to be responsible for myself, my family and my property.

This is his definition of man. Hundreds of thousands of years humanity wrapped up into one sentence. I honestly don't know what to make of this opinion, only that it is unadulterated horror.

Guns are part of my national heritage as well as my family heritage. I do not apologize for this and am not ashamed by it. I will not be shamed into hiding my ideals by those who wish to control me or who are ignorant (most anti-gun trolls).

If you could ask your ancestors what they think of guns and even if one of them say something along the lines of "I just like to shoot shit". You would know why you feel ashamed despite what you say. A tool for them, a long lost appendage for you.

I'm proud to be a gun owner and I like knowing that there are others out there, other gun owners, like me.

I wonder who is the salesman that sold this man his own inalienable right. You see the salesman didn't sell Vic a gun, he sold him pride. The right was already his, the gun was already his, but the pride! Brilliant. But suppose there was some like minded individual who wanted to reminisce about whatever. Like two magnets of the same side they would oppose themselves in a hail of gunfire! To this day Vic thinks himself the only honest man with a gun.

Regardless, the remainder of this diatribe by Vic Vega is troubling not in that how strange his opinions are but how respectable a gun owner he claims to be. There is alot of decent citizenship in there, steadfast even. What if Vic Vega is as good as it gets? One of the few who really has thought about his rights as a gun owner? But despite this post, which was basically a application to be on the terrorist watch list. Imagine a worse opinion, if you can.

 

[shortylickens]

I think after the 2nd or third post this thread should have been moved to P&N.

 

[Fritzo]

A mass shooting, yea they are pretty rare except when the media blasts it across TV.

Really? There's been a dozen or in the last year. If we had a dozen plane crashes in a year, I think I'd stop flying.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/us-mass-shootings-2012/

Feb. 21: Norcross, Ga.
4 killed, plus shooter
Jeong Soo Paek, 59, a man with a history of violence and who had been asked to leave the family’s spa, returned later in the evening and killed his sisters and their husbands before shooting himself.

Feb. 27: Chardon, Ohio
3 killed, 2 injured
T.J. Lane, 17, a sophomore at another area school, reportedly walked into the Chardon High School cafeteria and fired 10 shots at four students sitting at a table. Lane has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity; his trial is scheduled for January.

March 8: Pittsburgh
1 killed, plus shooter, 7 injured
A former Duquesne University teaching assistant who had been barred from campus, John Shick, 30, began shooting as he marched through a psychiatric hospital. He was shot dead by police.

April 2: Oakland
7 killed, 3 injured
Former nursing student One L. Goh, 43, who had dropped out of Oikos University, returned to the school, reportedly pulled an administrator into a nursing classroom, lined up students against the wall and began shooting them. He has pleaded not guilty and awaits trial.

April 6: Tulsa
3 killed, 2 injured
Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 33, are accused of targeting random black men in four locations as they drove around town in an Easter weekend shooting spree. They are awaiting formal arraignment.

May 30: Seattle
5 killed, plus shooter, 1 injured
Ian Lee Stawicki, 40, who had a history of mental and behavioral problems, was asked by a barista to leave a coffee shop before he stood up and opened fire. He fled and killed himself as police closed in hours later.

July 20: Aurora, Colo.
12 killed, 58 injured
Grad student James Eagan Holmes, 24, reportedly entered a mall theater during a midnight showing of “The Dark Knight Rises,” set off gas canisters and opened fire. He awaits trial and has not entered a plea.

Aug. 5: Oak Creek, Wisc.
6 killed, plus shooter, 3 injured
White supremacist Wade Michael Page, 40, walked into a Sikh temple and opened fire just before Sunday services. Police wounded Page, who then fatally shot himself.

Aug. 13: College Station, Texas
2 killed, plus shooter, 4 injured
Thomas Caffall III, 35, opened fire on police who approached his house to serve an eviction notice about two blocks from the Texas A&M campus. Police shot the gunman and he died in custody.

Sept. 27: Minneapolis
6 killed, plus shooter, 3 injured
As Andrew Engeldinger, 36, was being fired from his job at a sign-making company, he pulled out a gun and shot his two managers, the owner, other employees and a UPS driver as he walked around the building before shooting himself.

Oct. 21: Brookfield, Wisc.
3 killed, plus shooter, 4 injured
Radcliffe Franklin Haughton, 45, a former Marine whose wife had obtained a restraining order against him three days earlier, entered the suburban Milwaukee spa where she worked and shot her and six other women before killing himself.

Dec. 11: Happy Valley, Ore.
2 killed, plus shooter, 1 injured
Former gyro shop employee Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, wearing a white hockey mask, opened fire randomly inside a shopping mall. Officials said his gun, reportedly stolen from an acquaintance, jammed during the spree but he killed himself with a final shot.

Dec. 14: Newtown, Conn.
27 killed, plus shooter, unknown number injured
According to police, Adam Lanza, 20, entered Sandy Hook Elementary School and shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children, and then himself. His mother was a kindergarten teacher at the school and many of her students were among those killed. Police said that Lanza killed his mother at a secondary crime scene.

 

[spaceman]

the problem isnt guns
the problem is we raise a society of sociopaths

 

[BladeVenom]

Really? There's been a dozen or in the last year. If we had a dozen plane crashes in a year, I think I'd stop flying.

Last year 41 people were killed by falling furniture. Usually a TV, and the victim is usually a child. Are you going to stop using furniture? At least toss out the TV.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Before I destroy everything you believe yourself to be. I want to congratulate you on still being alive since the last time you posted your manifesto. Its not often I read madness and come away feeling embarrassed for another person and their family. I implore you this Christmas to share who you are with your family, I want you to look at their eyes and read their reactions to the horrors that come from your mouth.



This man will kill. Society only hope is that he judges truly and justly until old of age, clear of mind, that his freedoms are also our freedoms. He will fail and bullets will fly...



I believe this man. He rather die with a gun in his hand than be a family man. His Mayan calendar ends when he can no longer hold his gun. Like those Mayans, he is insane.



This is his definition of man. Hundreds of thousands of years humanity wrapped up into one sentence. I honestly don't know what to make of this opinion, only that it is unadulterated horror.



If you could ask your ancestors what they think of guns and even if one of them say something along the lines of "I just like to shoot shit". You would know why you feel ashamed despite what you say. A tool for them, a long lost appendage for you.



I wonder who is the salesman that sold this man his own inalienable right. You see the salesman didn't sell Vic a gun, he sold him pride. The right was already his, the gun was already his, but the pride! Brilliant. But suppose there was some like minded individual who wanted to reminisce about whatever. Like two magnets of the same side they would oppose themselves in a hail of gunfire! To this day Vic thinks himself the only honest man with a gun.

Regardless, the remainder of this diatribe by Vic Vega is troubling not in that how strange his opinions are but how respectable a gun owner he claims to be. There is alot of decent citizenship in there, steadfast even. What if Vic Vega is as good as it gets? One of the few who really has thought about his rights as a gun owner? But despite this post, which was basically a application to be on the terrorist watch list. Imagine a worse opinion, if you can.

:thumbsup: Or a worse time to make it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How about do some Research on the subject? These incidents are happening 2+ times a month and every time anyone dares say anything about reasonable Gun Control they are told to shut up about it or simply ignored.

Perhaps it's time to pull some heads out of Asses?

They wouldn't be doing this for long. If you were patriotic you would support a punishment tax for not carrying for the greater good.

 

[JulesMaximus]

They wouldn't be doing this for long. If you were patriotic you would support a punishment tax for not carrying for the greater good.

Yeah, that's just what we need. Every hotheaded idiot and sociopath packing a pistol.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yeah, that's just what we need. Every hotheaded idiot and sociopath packing a pistol.

I think it sailed over your head, but that's OK.

 

[Geosurface]

How about do some Research on the subject? These incidents are happening 2+ times a month and every time anyone dares say anything about reasonable Gun Control they are told to shut up about it or simply ignored.

Perhaps it's time to pull some heads out of Asses?

It's really not.

It's just the nature of the beast. You have hundreds of millions of people, living together... you have a world with mass media which tells you every time something fucked up happens...

It's just like huge pile ups of multiple cars, terrible accidents... they happen from time to time.

And?

 

[Engineer]

It's just like huge pile ups of multiple cars, terrible accidents... they happen from time to time.

And?

The bolded word makes the difference....

 

[Ruptga]

We now return to our regularly scheduled trolling.

Nailed it. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

 

[Fritzo]

Last year 41 people were killed by falling furniture. Usually a TV, and the victim is usually a child. Are you going to stop using furniture? At least toss out the TV.

That is the dumbest argument ever, and all gun supporters use it. The difference is one product is DESIGNED to kill people, the other is not.

And as I said, I'm not for banning guns. I'm for putting the same regulations on them as we have on other products that AREN'T designed to kill people.

 

[Geosurface]

The bolded word makes the difference....

End result is the same, lives lost.