"You gotta stick it in." Walmart now requiring use of smart chip CC's?

[feralkid]

Congrats on joining the first world

KT

Not quite; we still don't use a pin with our chip cards.

 

[IronWing]

To be fair, putting the card slot on the bottom of the fucking terminal with the terminal angled downward sitting about 5" over a small table at chest level isn't exactly the greatest location to put something that people (here in the US) aren't familiar with and it most definitely isn't a convenient location to shove the card into.

That just seems to be how nature designed fucking terminals.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I love the tap feature when it works but it's not available in anywhere near enough places. They should have tap with a $50 limit everywhere, everything above that you have to chip/pin; that would be awesome.

It's more than $50 at some places. I think it's available up to $100 but don't quote me on that.

To be fair, putting the card slot on the bottom of the fucking terminal with the terminal angled downward sitting about 5" over a small table at chest level isn't exactly the greatest location to put something that people (here in the US) aren't familiar with and it most definitely isn't a convenient location to shove the card into.

The terminals they have around here that I've seen all have the same layout, and frankly it isn't convenient, well laid out or well labeled at all. Remember, the US is new to this whole chip thing (relatively speaking).

Well, I've been using this for many years now, and I don't find the layout problematic at all, and never have.

The top is for NFC tapping (PayPass / PayWave), and the bottom is where the chip goes if "you gotta stick it in".

My main issue is that my American Express still doesn't have a chip in it. It's an old discontinued card, but they kept it around for existing users and never bothered updating it with chip and pin. I keep having to remind cashiers that I have to sign the stub, because basically all the other cards in use here (except from American tourists) have chip and pin.

 

[KeithTalent]

Not quite; we still don't use a pin with our chip cards.

Strange...

It's more than $50 at some places. I think it's available up to $100 but don't quote me on that.

I'm fine with $100, just needs to be available in more places.

KT

 

[kevinsbane]

Actually if both are chip enabled with pin, liability falls on the consumer. This is big reason for this, to push liability onto the consumer.

Liability doesn't fall on the consumer except in one case.

Consumers are liable if:
You lose your card
and
you tell someone the PIN
and
you don't tell the credit card company that the card is lost even though you can tell them.
You are not liable unless all three of the above are true. If all three are true, then you shouldn't have a credit card anyways.

No, the push to chip and PIN is that the chip portion is much harder to copy than plain magstripe. If you've got a chip and pin credit card it's very difficult to do a chip and PIN transaction without the original, physical card. If erroneous transactions start showing up on your bill, just show your credit card company you still have your credit card, and you aren't liable.

Of the few times I've been the victim of credit card fraud, all the times have been due to magstripe fraud (someone copied it) or online, neither of which I am liable for. And as long as I tell the credit card company if I lose my card, I'm not liable for chip and PIN fraud either.

And Paypass/Paywave is awesome. I can't tell you how annoyed I am that I have to take the card out of my wallet these days.

 

[Eug]

I'm fine with $100, just needs to be available in more places.

I believe it's at the discretion of the retailer itself. There is a maximum but most retailers don't go to the maximum.

I would guess a retailer that caters to a more upscale clientele and has more quick sale items that are higher cost would choose a higher amount.

OTOH, a place that's in a rough area with a lot of fraud wouldn't allow taps at all, or maximum say $25. Plus, there wouldn't much reason for say an ice cream vendor to have a $100 maximum. $30 would be fine. That's enough for ice cream for an entire family.

And Paypass/Paywave is awesome. I can't tell you how annoyed I am that I have to take the card out of my wallet these days.

I still have to take my card out, since I have multiple NFC-enabled cards. If I just wave my wallet, who knows what card will register.

OTOH, at work I just have one ID card, so I can just hold my wallet up to the scanner and it registers.

 

[DCal430]

Liability doesn't fall on the consumer except in one case.

Consumers are liable if:
You lose your card
and
you tell someone the PIN
and
you don't tell the credit card company that the card is lost even though you can tell them.
You are not liable unless all three of the above are true. If all three are true, then you shouldn't have a credit card anyways.

No, the push to chip and PIN is that the chip portion is much harder to copy than plain magstripe. If you've got a chip and pin credit card it's very difficult to do a chip and PIN transaction without the original, physical card. If erroneous transactions start showing up on your bill, just show your credit card company you still have your credit card, and you aren't liable.

Of the few times I've been the victim of credit card fraud, all the times have been due to magstripe fraud (someone copied it) or online, neither of which I am liable for. And as long as I tell the credit card company if I lose my card, I'm not liable for chip and PIN fraud either.

And Paypass/Paywave is awesome. I can't tell you how annoyed I am that I have to take the card out of my wallet these days.

NOPE, wrong with the new Chip and Pin card, if a chip card and pin was used to make the transaction you are liable, it doesn't mater if the thief figured out your pin on their own. This is to save the CC money by demanding consumers pay for fraud.

 

[kevinsbane]

NOPE, wrong with the new Chip and Pin card, if a chip card and pin was used to make the transaction you are liable, it doesn't mater if the thief figured out your pin on their own. This is to save the CC money by demanding consumers pay for fraud.

Untrue.

Yes, should your RBC Chip and PIN credit card be exposed to fraudulent or unauthorized use, you will be protected under the Zero Liability policy provided you took reasonable precautions to protect your card and your PIN.

If someone uses your Credit Card and your PIN or your Account number with any other
security code to make unauthorized purchases or otherwise obtain the benefits of your
Credit Card, you will not be responsible for those charges provided that you (i) are able to
establish to our reasonable satisfaction that you have taken reasonable steps to protect
your Credit Card and Credit Card Cheques against loss or theft and to safeguard your PIN
and other security codes in the manner set out in this Agreement or as we may otherwise
advise you from time to time, and (ii) cooperate fully with our investigation. You will,
however, remain fully responsible for all such charges if you voluntarily disclose your PIN
or other security code or otherwise contribute to the unauthorized use of your Credit Card
or access to your Account, or fail to tell us in a reasonable time that your Credit Card or
Credit Card Cheques have been lost or stolen or that someone else may know your PIN or
other security code.

I don't know where you get your information, but it's wrong.

Yes, there are conditions. I summarized those conditions where you are liable - you lose your card, you lose your PIN and you don't tell the credit card company.

 

[KeithTalent]

NOPE, wrong with the new Chip and Pin card, if a chip card and pin was used to make the transaction you are liable, it doesn't mater if the thief figured out your pin on their own. This is to save the CC money by demanding consumers pay for fraud.

What kind of crappy credit card company are you with?

KT

 

[foghorn67]

What kind of crappy credit card company are you with?

KT

Sounds awfully Floridan.

 

[Imp]

Yeah, I love the tap feature when it works but it's not available in anywhere near enough places. They should have tap with a $50 limit everywhere, everything above that you have to chip/pin; that would be awesome.

KT

I get the feeling that it's going to disappear over time. The liability shifting thing is probably happening, just no openly advertised, and not frequent enough yet. If a retailer and issuing bank can dump the liability onto a customer for an extra 10 seconds at the checkout, there's almost no reason not to. Hire an extra employee for min wage ($10/hr?) to pick up slack, probably way less than dealing with a single fraudulent charge -- the charge itself and the time someone has to talk to the bank.

I'll be honest, I don't know what the PIN is for this card. I'm aware that most credit cards give PIN numbers when they're assigned these days so that you can use them for cash advances, but I don't know if that's the same PIN you'd use for this and frankly I shred that without any intention of ever using it given the ridiculous fees that the cards charge for cash advances anyway.

All my old credit cards, before the chip days, had a PIN they send you separately. I trashed them because, like you said, they seemed pointless. With my new chip cards, same thing, except it's required now so I bother to change it online to something I can memorize -- you're supposed to change it, IIRC.

 

[sswingle]

Was just reading about this. Apparently the switch over is going to start full force in October 2015.

Currently the retailer doesn't need to worry about fraudulent cards if they are swiped. After October 2015 that will change. The retailer won't need to worry about chipped cards, but if a bad card is swiped the liability is on the retailer.

 

[rsutoratosu]

yeah, after the target deal, almost everyone is switching to chip. we had these in europe long ago..

my walmart started a few months ago.. i was confused because the reader was all black and you can't really see the chip slot

 

[who?]

When it takes a long time they may be looking at your image on the security camera or the store manager may be tying up the connection with his porn surfing.

 

[Kobota]

seems no advantage to the consumer. right now i have 0 liability for fraudulent charges with any of my cards.

 

[Eug]

All my old credit cards, before the chip days, had a PIN they send you separately. I trashed them because, like you said, they seemed pointless. With my new chip cards, same thing, except it's required now so I bother to change it online to something I can memorize -- you're supposed to change it, IIRC.

Not that I used this much, but you could get cash from ATMs with credit card PIN numbers. This was sometimes helpful on trips overseas.

Yeah, you paid a cash advance fee and the ATM charges, but taking that hit is better than not getting any money at all when your bank card didn't work in that ATM.

 

[dawheat]

NOPE, wrong with the new Chip and Pin card, if a chip card and pin was used to make the transaction you are liable, it doesn't mater if the thief figured out your pin on their own. This is to save the CC money by demanding consumers pay for fraud.

I find this really hard to believe, though I suppose it could be the case in a particular country. I certainly can't see it occurring in the US.

The only thing I could find relevant is:

October, 2015 – The party that has made investment in EMV deployment is protected from financial liability for card-present counterfeit fraud losses on this date. If neither or both parties are EMV compliant, the fraud liability remains the same as it is today. This date excludes automated fuel dispensers.

 

[WelshBloke]

Not that I used this much, but you could get cash from ATMs with credit card PIN numbers. This was sometimes helpful on trips overseas.

How do you get money out of an ATM without a PIN?

 

[JEDI]

How do you get money out of an ATM without a PIN?

we don't usually use PINs with credit cards.
only with atm + debit cards.

the only exception is pulling cash. then we have to use a pin.
but only desparate people do that since it incurs obscene levels of surcharges, fees, and interest rates.
that's why most people don't know/don't care about the credit card pin and just toss/shred/forget the #.

 

[Mark R]

No, the push to chip and PIN is that the chip portion is much harder to copy than plain magstripe. If you've got a chip and pin credit card it's very difficult to do a chip and PIN transaction without the original, physical card. If erroneous transactions start showing up on your bill, just show your credit card company you still have your credit card, and you aren't liable.

You need to be a bit careful. In the UK, where chip & PIN is well established, this type of unauth transaction claim is common. However, if the PIN was used, then banks only reverse the transaction in exceptional circumstances (e.g. they are able to trace back multiple fraudulent transactions to a specific terminal) - in the vast majority of claims, they successfully argue that the cardholder was negligent in not protecting their PIN, as there would be no other way for a thief to find it.

The key issue is that the bank, and most courts, will assume that the customer was negligent with the PIN in the absence of strong evidence to the contrary

 

[Eug]

How do you get money out of an ATM without a PIN?

Exactly my point. If you throw away the PIN for a credit card, you can't get money out of an ATM with that credit card.

 

[WelshBloke]

Exactly my point. If you throw away the PIN for a credit card, you can't get money out of an ATM with that credit card.

But why is it more difficult to remember a credit card PIN than a debit card PIN?

*cough*particularlyifyousetthembothtothesamePIN*cough*

 

[slpaulson]

I was pretty frustrated the first time this happened to me at Walmart as well.

The reader is angled down. so it wasn't obvious that there was even a place to put the card.

 

[Eug]

But why is it more difficult to remember a credit card PIN than a debit card PIN?

*cough*particularlyifyousetthembothtothesamePIN*cough*

Some credit cards (at least previously) didn't allow you to change the PIN.

 

[WelshBloke]

Some credit cards (at least previously) didn't allow you to change the PIN.

Your country is weird.