You know what's sad? MS writes 3rd party apps for winphone

[WelshBloke]

That's the whole point, really. A lot of people, myself included, believe that Google's complete lack of support for Windows Phone is to limit the choices users have and force them in to the Android ecosystem rather than the WP ecosystem. I don't believe their stance will ever change, but we'll have to wait a few years for WP market penetration to top iOS.

Its up to you what you believe.

And no it's not. It's like Apple coming out and saying "Yeah, we don't really want to support Android at this time but we're constantly looking at the situation and, if it changes, we'll see about making iCloud available on Android."

Yeah it is the same. Apple doesn't support iCloud on Android and Google doesn't support youtube on WP. If you want icloud at the moment buy an iPhone if you want official youtube support buy an iphone or android phone.

You buy what works at the moment, not what you think might, perhaps work in the future.

At this point, you simply KNOW Apple isn't going to support shit on Android. Or WP. You know. With Google's current stance (which I don't buy but several others do) is that they "might" support WP "eventually".

I'm calling shens.

So now youre saying its the same , that Apple doesn't Android and wont in the future and that Google doesn't support WP and won't in the future.

And, BTW, I don't really have a dog in the fight at this point. I'm an iOS user whom has almost purged all things Google out anyways (saying goodbye to All Access Music today) and when I do switch to Windows Phone, the only thing I'll think I'll miss is a chromecast option on the YouTube app. But I'm pretty close to eliminating the ChromeCast anyways.

Thats fine. Personally if I was a user of something I'd buy the device that supported my usage pattern rather than changing my usage habits to suit the device but its your money and your choice.

 

[desura]

This isn't about MS vs google...as I said earlier...MS has written a "Lowes App" for windows phone.

Lowes corporation itself wrote a Lowes App for iOS (and probably android).

MS had to take upon itself to write a Lowes App for its Windows Phone because Lowes corporation couldn't be bothered to write a Lowes App for windows phone like it did for iPhone.

And the app that MS wrote is just an IE link to the mobile website. It's not even an app, really. It's just a sad and pathetic placeholder.

 

[WelshBloke]

This isn't about MS vs google...as I said earlier...MS has written a "Lowes App" for windows phone.

Lowes corporation itself wrote a Lowes App for iOS (and probably android).

MS had to take upon itself to write a Lowes App for its Windows Phone because Lowes corporation couldn't be bothered to write a Lowes App for windows phone like it did for iPhone.

And the app that MS wrote is just an IE link to the mobile website. It's not even an app, really. It's just a sad and pathetic placeholder.

Yeah but people who are buying WPs pretty much know what they are getting into. Also is there any advantage in having a separate app for every website that you might go to, sometimes using a mobile website is the most convenient solution.

 

[desura]

Yeah but people who are buying WPs pretty much know what they are getting into. Also is there any advantage in having a separate app for every website that you might go to, sometimes using a mobile website is the most convenient solution.

It's just kind of sad, and subtly insulting that MS is doing this.

by my count, they've done this for like 17 different web services which have native iOS apps but can't be bothered to write one for windows phone (which is a good platform...)

Just wonder who MS thinks they're fooling.

 

[bearxor]

Yeah it is the same. Apple doesn't support iCloud on Android and Google doesn't support youtube on WP. If you want icloud at the moment buy an iPhone if you want official youtube support buy an iphone or android phone.

You buy what works at the moment, not what you think might, perhaps work in the future.

So now youre saying its the same , that Apple doesn't Android and wont in the future and that Google doesn't support WP and won't in the future.

The point wasn't who supports what or will support what or whatever, it's the attitude taken on by Google.

As I said., you know Apple isn't going to support Android with app releases. Google, OTOH, continues to string people along by publicly saying they might eventually support Windows Phone, while giving no indication of what the "threshold" for support might happen, when the reality, IMO, is to deny WP users access to Google services in the hope that they make the switch to Android.

They can support or not support whatever they like. Quite frankly, I don't care. What pisses me off is this "Oh we're so happy and we just want everybody to get along" bullshit they seem to have pulled over a lot of people's eyes, when their actions are often times in complete contradiction of the same.

But this is pretty much all I have to say about this at this point. I hope they prove me wrong one day.

 

[WelshBloke]

The point wasn't who supports what or will support what or whatever, it's the attitude taken on by Google.

As I said., you know Apple isn't going to support Android with app releases. Google, OTOH, continues to string people along by publicly saying they might eventually support Windows Phone, while giving no indication of what the "threshold" for support might happen, when the reality, IMO, is to deny WP users access to Google services in the hope that they make the switch to Android.

Sounds like they are just being honest to me. We don't support them now but who knows what will happen in the future.

If WP gets to a majority user base (yes I know) you can bet Google will support them more fully, in the same way they support Apple.

They can support or not support whatever they like. Quite frankly, I don't care. What pisses me off is this "Oh we're so happy and we just want everybody to get along" bullshit they seem to have pulled over a lot of people's eyes, when their actions are often times in complete contradiction of the same.

But this is pretty much all I have to say about this at this point. I hope they prove me wrong one day.

Do you get this upset about them not fully supporting BlackBerry OS , or Tizen or Bada?

 

[bearxor]

Do you get this upset about them not fully supporting BlackBerry OS , or Tizen or Bada?

Well, not Tizen or Bada because you're talking real fringe at this point.

I'm still kind of split on BB10. I mean, BB10 isn't even a year old at this point and has sold miserably. Like, way worse than WP. Not even BB7 users have been adopting it very well. On top of that, BB's future as a company is not very certain. So, for now, I'm more than happy to give Google a pass on the lack of BB support.

I don't completely disagree with Google's rationale. I can understand waiting to see how things play out. But it's well past time for Google to throw out some WP support if they're serious about their cross-platform commitment.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well, not Tizen or Bada because you're talking real fringe at this point.

WP is much, much closer to Bada numbers than it is to Android numbers.

Source

I'm still kind of split on BB10. I mean, BB10 isn't even a year old at this point and has sold miserably. Like, way worse than WP. Not even BB7 users have been adopting it very well. On top of that, BB's future as a company is not very certain. So, for now, I'm more than happy to give Google a pass on the lack of BB support.

So its OK to not support BB because its not doing very well but its unfair to not support WP even though its not doing very well?

I don't completely disagree with Google's rationale. I can understand waiting to see how things play out. But it's well past time for Google to throw out some WP support if they're serious about their cross-platform commitment.

Why? Google aren't there to help Microsoft out, they are there to support an actual user base and WP doesn't have enough of one yet. How long WP has been out doesn't change that, indeed it just makes it look worse for Microsoft, why should Google get excited about WP when the general public isnt?

 

[poofyhairguy]

This isn't about MS vs google...as I said earlier...MS has written a "Lowes App" for windows phone.

Lowes corporation itself wrote a Lowes App for iOS (and probably android).

MS had to take upon itself to write a Lowes App for its Windows Phone because Lowes corporation couldn't be bothered to write a Lowes App for windows phone like it did for iPhone.

And the app that MS wrote is just an IE link to the mobile website. It's not even an app, really. It's just a sad and pathetic placeholder.

Oh wow, I knew nothing about this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2056158/microsofts-webapps-fizzle-as-brands-pull-apps.html

Microsoft’s decision to post websites of popular brands as Windows Phone “apps” appears to be slowly backfiring, as several “WinApps” have vanished from Microsoft’s app store.

Atari, Cars.com, and Southwest Airlines all appear to have pulled their listings from the site, possibly over copyright issues.

 

[lifeblood]

Oh wow, I knew nothing about this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2056158/microsofts-webapps-fizzle-as-brands-pull-apps.html

No great loss, many of those Apps have less functionality and ease of use then the websites they replace. I have the NewEgg app on my Nexus 7 but I really prefer to use their website. I just find it more comfortable.

 

[bearxor]

WP is much, much closer to Bada numbers than it is to Android numbers.

Source

First, that's pre-WP8 launch. In the beginning of 2012, Bada was outselling WP. That is no longer the case.

Secondly, Bada is dead. Samsung has folded the work into Tizen and Bada is no longer a supported operating system. The latest Bada phones are from late 2011.

I mean, come on man, the very same Wiki article you linked notes both of these things. The table right above the one you linked has current sales figures.

So its OK to not support BB because its not doing very well but its unfair to not support WP even though its not doing very well?

It's OK to not support BB, at this time, because it's future is uncertain. I don't think anyone can say for certain that BB devices will even be on the market in a year.

You simply can't say that for WP. Microsoft is not going anywhere.

Why? Google aren't there to help Microsoft out, they are there to support an actual user base and WP doesn't have enough of one yet. How long WP has been out doesn't change that, indeed it just makes it look worse for Microsoft, why should Google get excited about WP when the general public isnt?

I'm not saying they are or that they have to.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I agree no loss lifeblood. Honestly for me the shocking news is:

1. MS is so desperate for Tier 1 brands to release apps for the platform they would stoop to this.

2. MS would do this rather than actually contact the companies and make real apps for them.

 

[bearxor]

I agree no loss lifeblood. Honestly for me the shocking news is:

1. MS is so desperate for Tier 1 brands to release apps for the platform they would stoop to this.

2. MS would do this rather than actually contact the companies and make real apps for them.

1. Yes they are. Apps are still basically the #1 reason people complain about Windows Phone.
2. They do actually attempt to contact companies and make real apps for them. When they decline, for whatever reason, they do their best to get around it on their own. Sometimes that just means making links to web pages when people search your store for an "app".

 

[WelshBloke]

First, that's pre-WP8 launch. In the beginning of 2012, Bada was outselling WP. That is no longer the case.

Secondly, Bada is dead. Samsung has folded the work into Tizen and Bada is no longer a supported operating system. The latest Bada phones are from late 2011.

I mean, come on man, the very same Wiki article you linked notes both of these things. The table right above the one you linked has current sales figures.

I'm just pointing out that as far as user numbers go WP doesn't have them, and thats all Google is going to care about.

It's OK to not support BB, at this time, because it's future is uncertain. I don't think anyone can say for certain that BB devices will even be on the market in a year.

You simply can't say that for WP. Microsoft is not going anywhere.

WM wasn't going anywhere, WP7 wasn't going anywhere...

I'm sure Microsoft will be around for a long time but that doesn't mean that there wont be any more major changes in their mobile OS.

I'm not saying they are or that they have to.

So what, exactly, are you complaining about then?

 

[poofyhairguy]

1. Yes they are. Apps are still basically the #1 reason people complain about Windows Phone.
2. They do actually attempt to contact companies and make real apps for them. When they decline, for whatever reason, they do their best to get around it on their own. Sometimes that just means making links to web pages when people search your store for an "app".

It seems like they didn't ask permission for this last move or they wouldn't have to pull the webapps.

 

[Belegost]

It seems like they didn't ask permission for this last move or they wouldn't have to pull the webapps.

Actually that opens up the question though - The company put up a public website available to anyone who has a web browser. Is there something unethical about posting a link to that website in the windows store without asking?

For me it seems like a grey area - yes, asking seems courteous, but at the same time they are driving traffic to the website that is already open to anyone...

If MS had written some custom app and posted it without asking, that would be wrong, as MS would be presenting that company to users in a way that company could object to.

But this is just providing a convenient link to a webpage the company has complete control of, and has already sanctioned for public use.

 

[WelshBloke]

Actually that opens up the question though - The company put up a public website available to anyone who has a web browser. Is there something unethical about posting a link to that website in the windows store without asking?

For me it seems like a grey area - yes, asking seems courteous, but at the same time they are driving traffic to the website that is already open to anyone...

If MS had written some custom app and posted it without asking, that would be wrong, as MS would be presenting that company to users in a way that company could object to.

But this is just providing a convenient link to a webpage the company has complete control of, and has already sanctioned for public use.

I suppose they might be annoyed by Microsoft calling their website Microsoft's app? Its kinda like stealing the entire site.

 

[pantsaregood]

As much as many of you seem to want WP8 to catastrophically fail, it simply doesn't seem that things will transpire that way. WP8 has broken 10% marketshare in a number of countries, and outsells iOS in a few. The OS is having difficulty breaking into the American market, but the 2.5% share (~4% now, based on memory) reflects share over the entire world - there are quite a few markets where the OS isn't easy to ignore.

Also, comparing Microsoft suing Android OEMs to Google actively preventing Microsoft from having an "official" YouTube app isn't very sound. I don't know the specifics (nor does anyone, apparently) of Microsoft's patent lawsuits, but apparently they're pretty legitimate, given Android OEMs always voluntarily roll over and pay, rather than challenging.

Google has actively attempted to cripple Windows Phone since the beginning. For a relatively long time, the Google Maps web app would retrieve the browser string in WP7 and force the user back to the search page. Google claimed that "the WP7 browser isn't compatible," despite the fact that simply changing the browser's identification string allowed the page to work perfectly fine. The YouTube issue has been ongoing - initially, Microsoft's YouTube app failed to comply with some of Google's terms. It didn't display ads and it allowed users to download videos, so Microsoft pulled it. Microsoft then worked on it (with the help of Google, apparently), then published it with ad-support and removal of the ability to download videos. Google promptly made a point to break it "because it isn't built in HTML5." I recall reading somewhere that some Google employees pointed out that building a nice, feature-rich YouTube app in HTML5 would be almost impossible. Also, note that neither the iOS nor Android YouTube clients use HTML5.

Microsoft isn't innocent by any stretch of the imagination, but turning a blind eye to Google is ridiculous. It is very apparent that Google is not only refusing to support Windows Phone, but actively attempting to prevent it from growing.

Also, Microsoft makes no claim to "own" these web apps:

This WebApp brings the Lowe’s mobile website to your Windows Phone. Get convenient access to all of the site’s mobile web features plus the ability to detect your location, launch the site from your app list, and pin the tile to your start screen.

Features:

• Browse and purchase the full selection of products offered by Lowe’s
• Find a location close to you along with the phone number and hours of operation
• Arrange to pick up an item at a store near you or schedule for delivery
• Check the balance of current gift cards and customize and purchase new ones

Microsoft does not claim ownership of or responsibility for the content in this app. This app links directly to content available at http://m.lowes.com. A data connection is required when using this app.

 

[WelshBloke]

As much as many of you seem to want WP8 to catastrophically fail, it simply doesn't seem that things will transpire that way. WP8 has broken 10% marketshare in a number of countries, and outsells iOS in a few. The OS is having difficulty breaking into the American market, but the 2.5% share (~4% now, based on memory) reflects share over the entire world - there are quite a few markets where the OS isn't easy to ignore.

Also, comparing Microsoft suing Android OEMs to Google actively preventing Microsoft from having an "official" YouTube app isn't very sound. I don't know the specifics (nor does anyone, apparently) of Microsoft's patent lawsuits, but apparently they're pretty legitimate, given Android OEMs always voluntarily roll over and pay, rather than challenging.

Google has actively attempted to cripple Windows Phone since the beginning. For a relatively long time, the Google Maps web app would retrieve the browser string in WP7 and force the user back to the search page. Google claimed that "the WP7 browser isn't compatible," despite the fact that simply changing the browser's identification string allowed the page to work perfectly fine. The YouTube issue has been ongoing - initially, Microsoft's YouTube app failed to comply with some of Google's terms. It didn't display ads and it allowed users to download videos, so Microsoft pulled it. Microsoft then worked on it (with the help of Google, apparently), then published it with ad-support and removal of the ability to download videos. Google promptly made a point to break it "because it isn't built in HTML5." I recall reading somewhere that some Google employees pointed out that building a nice, feature-rich YouTube app in HTML5 would be almost impossible. Also, note that neither the iOS nor Android YouTube clients use HTML5.

Microsoft isn't innocent by any stretch of the imagination, but turning a blind eye to Google is ridiculous. It is very apparent that Google is not only refusing to support Windows Phone, but actively attempting to prevent it from growing.

Also, Microsoft makes no claim to "own" these web apps:

I dont want WP8.x to fail, I'm not particularly bothered either way. I dont use it and its not got the market impact to make any difference in my options.

What I don't understand is the people crying that something isn't supported on their (very) minority OS when, if that something was so important, they could have just bought the phone that supported it in the first place.

I personally dont really care what company is in charge of my OS, I buy the one I use because of the feature set that compliments what I want to do with it.

...Also, Microsoft makes no claim to "own" these web apps:

There's obviously some problem if they are getting pulled.

 

[Dominato3r]

Good point.

What's the deal with iOS apps then?

 

[WelshBloke]

What's the deal with iOS apps then?

20-30% market share.

 

[Dominato3r]

20-30% market share.

So it's about marketshare, not what MS is doing with manufacturers and patents.

 

[lopri]

I have zero sympathy for MS and its incompetent products. Crying foul against Google is likewise laugh-worthy to me, even though I myself am growing weary of ever-increasing Google's reaches. I will not use nor recommend MS' services to people around me except when no other option exists.

 

[hans007]

20-30% market share.

IOS apps are also lucrative. They have 20-30% market share but its a higher percentage of big spenders on apps.

I mean if you are a company and you have to support windows phone which has a huge amount of its share comprised of lumia 520 users and such to boot its hardly worth the effort to hire a c# Dev who knows win phone 8

 

[Bateluer]

You mean because Google is being a jackass and refusing to write apps for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 and refused API access?

Hmm, curious, would you want to waste development resources on a platform with ~5% market share thats not growing, in which any growth would detract from your own platform? Waste of money. Google can barely get the YouTube website to work on the desktop as it is.