You Wanted Price Caps California? You Got Em

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0
WASHINGTON ? Just weeks after federal authorities imposed controls on wholesale energy prices in California, what many economists warned could happen in the Western states appears to happening: Befuddled by the complex pricing formulas as energy reserves fluctuate, energy producers are withholding power and making the shortages even worse.

The price controls, imposed June 19 by the Federal Energy and Regulatory Commission after much debate, were intended to maintain a steady supply of energy to watt-short Western states and prevent price gouging in times of dire need.

Instead, generators in some Western states are holding back supplies this week because they say they have no idea how much they will be paid for their product.

This energy withholding ? coupled with the facts that several Nevada plants have been closed for repairs and soaring temperatures have nudged up demand ? resulted in rolling blackouts in Nevada for the first time earlier this week.

Some critics are now blaming the FERC controls for California's "Stage 2" alert that occurred on Monday, the first alert that severe since the imposition of the controls. California suffered another Stage 2 alert on the Fourth of July holiday.

'We Predicted This Would Happen'

Economists who argued against the price controls were already shaking their heads.

"There seems to have been the desire to repeal the laws of economics," said Lynne Keisling, director of economic studies for the Reason Public Policy Institute and professor of economics at Northwestern University.

Many economists and energy policy analysts are skeptical of severe manipulations of the marketplace such as price controls. These controls sever the feedback loop that helps determine an adequate supply for fluctuating demands, they say.

"We predicted this would happen when they first started talking about the price caps," said Myron Ebell, director of international environmental policy for the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, a pro-market think tank.

And economists feared that price controls would do nothing to help increase the supply of energy in the Western states or would fail to decrease the demand for that energy or both.

Reason's Keisling said she believes FERC knew the Pandora's box it might be opening, but bowed to political pressure. "I think it's a mixed bag ? it was the politically wise thing to do; but as an economist my views are more cynical than most."

She pointed out that under the FERC order, the power suppliers in the Western states are given a 10 percent "risk premium" that kicks up the incentive for the states to sell as much as they can to big buyers in California, even at the risk of their own state customers. But it's not necessarily enough, she said.

"I give the FERC commission a lot of credit to working very hard to get a balanced compromise," she said. "My take is they knew they were making a compromise but knew the possibility of what happened in Nevada was there."
 

warcleric

Banned
May 31, 2000
2,384
0
0
The same people who rallied for the near impossible environmental regulations that are in effect in CA <which is causing the shortage to begin with> probably rallied for this price regulation. The real irony is they want the rest of the country to bail them out now. Take your medicine CA...maybe this will make you think twice about over-protecting your precious environment.
 

Helpless

Banned
Jul 26, 2000
2,285
0
0
It doesn't take an economist (although I am one) to realize that the only solution to the rolling blackouts caused by excess demand is to allow prices to increase even higher.
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
9,911
0
76


<< It doesn't take an economist (although I am one) to realize that the only solution to the rolling blackouts caused by excess demand is to allow prices to increase even higher. >>



Yep. Since the blackouts started, they've cut their power use by a sizeable percentage. With price caps, they will use more power. Power they don't even HAVE...
 

Urinal Mint

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2000
2,074
0
0
When they're lighting their own farts just to heat their dinner, maybe then they're realize just how bad they've gone and fvcked everything up.
 

MrPALCO

Banned
Nov 14, 1999
2,064
0
0
Price caps are another way Liberals (and those middle of the roaders) dip into the pocket of the common man.

President Bush fought hard against this, but had to allow a limited cap in order to keep the peace.

Utility Companies are owned by your next door neighbor and many others, when their company is forced to cap prices, their stock will fall in value.

Paying for the foolish mistakes of Californians, who voted in eco-wackos and would not allow new power plants, is unjust.

 

Helpless

Banned
Jul 26, 2000
2,285
0
0
I'll try to scan a good comicstrip that was in yesterday's Washington Times (I think it was yesterday)...had a picture of two guys in CA standing in the dark holding a lighter to see...one had an EPA shirt on, the other was reading a book about price caps, or something to that effect


 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
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We tried to tell them but they wouldn't listen. I wonder who Davis and the rest of California is going to try and blame for this?
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76


<< It doesn't take an economist (although I am one) to realize that the only solution to the rolling blackouts caused by excess demand is to allow prices to increase even higher. >>

i have to agree there. every since our last bills have been extremely high, i've cut down on my electricity use by a lot. Although for some reason, my dumb ass roommate still thinks he lives in Tenn cause he still Looooooves leaving lights on and using the AC, that bitch

danny~!
 

MrPALCO

Banned
Nov 14, 1999
2,064
0
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The government of California, is reaping the harvest of many years of godless policy.

Now, like a selfish drowning man, they reach out to pull under people of States that built power plants.

Allowing California to sink or swim, will force them to make common sense decisions regarding the production of power.

It will also force them to take a hard look at their State sponsored god, the &quot;environment&quot;.

 

Recneps

Senior member
Jul 2, 2000
232
0
0
<<It doesn't take an economist (although I am one) to realize that the only solution to the rolling blackouts caused by excess demand is to allow prices to increase even higher. >>

Well you could have planned blacks out instead of ruling ones.

 

Helpless

Banned
Jul 26, 2000
2,285
0
0
...So much for &quot;green&quot; power Ralph Nader makes me laugh, as do the rest of the people who have opposed nuclear power in CA all these years.


When I go home this weekend, I'm going to turn my AC down 1 degree in dedication to the ones sweating in California as a result of no power!


PS...Vote (R) in the next CA elections and we'll pipe you some energy in to ofset the time it'll take to build a few dozens plants in your districts.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Hahaha.. you guys are so full of crap it's starting to come out of your ears. We haven't been using more energy, in fact we have been using less. The Price Caps do not have any effect on our houshold energy costs.


The truth is that there is going to be a power shortage and that we were looking at Power Blackouts no matter what was done to the prices of Energy.So instead of getting reamed up the poop[ chute by the Texas Energy companies and having to deal with blackouts, we get fair prices and blackouts, which like I said, were inevitable. Hell Rolling Blackouts aren't as bad as it is made out to be. In the most extreme cases they last for only one hour(BFD!) and if that is what it takes to keep from getting ripped off by Duke, Enron and the other nefarious Energy Pirates then so be it. I would rather have a blackout than pay those theiving wankers price gouging energy costs.

As for the other states bailing us out, give me one example, just one! You guys have a hard time just bailing yourselves out, forget trying to help anyone else.

Texmaster, a day in the Dark in California is better than the best day ever in your State of Confusion err Texas.
 

Urinal Mint

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2000
2,074
0
0


<< Texmaster, a day in the Dark in California is better than the best day ever in your State of Confusion err Texas. >>


Of course it is, jackass... at least you guys have real beaches. Who needs power to surf?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0


<< at least you guys have real beaches. Who needs power to surf? >>

You mean there are no Surfers in Galveston? Are thew beaches too polluted there?
 

RanDum72

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2001
4,330
0
76
The power producers are &quot;befuddled&quot; by how much they are going to be paid? BS! They want to time it right so they can sell at the biggest profit margin. FERC has confirmed that at least $125 million have been overcharged by these producers and as much as over a billion. Employees have just come forward to say that some producers had purposely idled their plants or trottled back capacity at the peak of the roling blackouts just to &quot;scare&quot; people and justify hiking their prices.Capitalism is great but excessive greed at the expense of the many is unjustifiable.
 

holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
Red is right Bush doesn't want to do anything aobut because all his wealthy compadres are getting richer by just reaming Californians. @#$%@ electricity, oil, gas has gone up insanely since he has been office. It is almost criminal what they charge for per megawatt. Some form of collusion is going on and Bush is probably getting rich off of this sh!t. Well I guess in this case his grades and scores in high school and college are indicative of how stupid he really is.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0


<< Then dont buy if you are being ripped off. >>

To bad it's not an open Market and the prices can be manipulated by such obvious Shiesters.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0


<< Then dont buy if you are being ripped off. >>

To bad it's not an open Market and the prices can be manipulated by such obvious Shiesters.
 

Helpless

Banned
Jul 26, 2000
2,285
0
0
Well I guess in this case his grades and scores in high school and college are indicative of how stupid he really is


What college did you go to, and what are you doing for a living right now?


 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
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holden, please look at a chart of those prices you mention and let us all know when they started going up compared to when Pres. Bush took office.

Dammit man, if you are going to post BS at least post BS that is not so easily verifiable as such.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0


<< Then dont buy if you are being ripped off. >>

To bad it's not an open Market and the prices can be manipulated by such obvious Shiesters.
 
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