Your experience with Vista Beta 2

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,415
3
81
I'd like to hear other peoples experiences with Vista Beta 2 so far.

I just finished installing Vista on a separate 40 GB hard drive on my computer and everything seems to be running fine. I installed the Vista ATI Catalyst drivers and the Creative Audigy Vista drivers without a problem. I also installed the free version, (1 year subscription), of eTrust EZ Antivirus for Vista.
The system I installed it in:
Shuttle AN35N Ultra nForce 2 mainboard
XP Mobile Barton at 2.2 GHz
Corsair ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) PC 3200 cas 2.5 Ram
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
Audigy 2 Value sound card
Netgear FA311 NIC
80 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM ATA drive with Windows XP Pro
40 GB Maxtor 7200 RPM ATA drive with Vista Beta 2

Install took about 45 to 50 min and went without a problem.
It defaults to Vista on start up but you have 30 seconds to chose your other OS if you want.
My XP Pro is listed as "Older version of Windows" LOL.
The rating on my computer is a 3 and the OS seems pretty snappy.
I haven't had a chance to really look around in it yet but I will over the next few days,
Over all I'm pretty impressed with this Beta.
I can imagine that a newer mainboard with a faster CPU, 2 GB of memory and a high end video card would make this OS scream.
My next step will be to find a good DVD burning software for it. I use Nero in XP but I don't think it will work in Vista ..... will research.
Also planning on installing a few games to see how they play.

I'll check back and update from time to time.

 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Right now, it is an aggravating mix of great new features, clutter, useless new features, changes for the sake of change, and disk thrashing.

First the good:
When you minimize a window, it looks cool. Networking is a bit strange at first, but a welcome renovation of the archaic network settings in xp. Performance is decent, little features like readyboost and the like should make for a snappy system. Right now, it ain't half bad, with only 1gb of ram and the indexer thrashing around in the background, its quite responsive.

And as much as I hate to say it, thats about all the good right now.

The bad:

Aero Glass is a failure. It is a waste of resources as it does essentially nothing but make windows minimize and maximize nicely. Thats it. The titlebar is transparent as well - just what I always wanted, cause god knows how many times I've wanted to know whats behind that 10 pixel strip of titlebar. That in fact, is so important, that it's worth sacrificing making it easy to tell which is the active window, which is essentially solely determined by which close button is red. Flip 3d is complete garbage - what purpose does it serve? Alt-tab is improved, and useful, because you can see the contents of the window. Flip-3d shows you angled windows on top of each other - so not only can you not tell whats behind the first window, but its hard enough to tell whats on the first window cause of the angle. Expose in OSX on the other hand, is quite useful. It lets you see ALL the windows at the same time, flat out in front of you.

Basically, instead of doing something useful with the 3d accelerated desktop, theyve done nothing but make old somewhat useful features into new, shiny, completely useless features.

More to come later, believe me, I'm just getting started, but right now, I need to get back to a normal OS.
 

sswingle

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
7,183
45
91
I got it loaded last night. Athlon 64 3500 with 1 gb of ram. System is rated a 3. I am mostly frusterated by the slowness of the whole thing. What should be simple tasks max out the cpu and take forever to open up. Interestingly enough though, Office 2007 apps load lightning fast. ATI drivers loaded great, haven't gotten Creative drivers loaded though. I tried the Vista beta 1 drivers, but I still dont have any sound. Maybe because I'm running 64 bit?

Nero version 6 installed ok. I got a message when launching the install that there was a known problem with nero and vista, but I told it to install anyways. I haven't burned with Nero itself, but I have burned 2 discs with DVD Shrink, which uses Nero, so I dont expect any problems with that.

As far as user interface, I do like it for the most part. I am getting frusterated at not being able to find settings that I need though. On the other hand, the search is awesome. Open up the control panel and type in the search what you want to do, and it finds you the correct control panel app. Now if only I knew how to get to that setting without searching every time... Even going to windows help and getting a step by step walkthrough (when trying to find autoplay settings) told me to go the control panel and search for autoplay.

The sidebar, while cool, seems mostly useless. I have a cpu meter, an analog clock, and the slideshow thingy. While from a technology aspect its cool to be able to do that, do I really need an analog clock there? And the picture slideshow...I haven't figured out how to change the folder to someplace I actually have pics that I would like to see. I dont really want to duplicate my pics into the folder it works out of just to use the slideshow.

I'm sure it'll all grow on me, and I'm going to attempt to use it as much as possible and not boot back to XP, but it has a lot of room to improve IMHO.
 

DasFox

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
4,668
46
91
Sheesh with my "WorkRig" specs maybe I should just forget it.

ALOHA
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Hmm... I'm not really sure what people are all worked up about with memory. Sure it requires more than XP did, mostly due to the cosmetics...

BUT...

I've had a session going for the last 2 hours... downloading with IE7, have an instance of Word 2007 and Outlook 2007 open, Task manager running... and Windows is reporting that system resources show 950MB of physical memory available out of 1.5GB. Sure the pagefile is saturated, but that just means that Windows task scheduler is doing it's job. Sure it's up from a base of about 300MB usage, but remember all of the pretties... which you CAN turn off.
 

Reckoner

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
10,851
1
81
Seems like a bunch of fluff at this point. I don't see it as a huge upgrade over XP in it's current state (emphasis on current state).


And I HATE, HATE, HATE all the freakin' prompts whenever something new wants to install, or if I want to go into device manager. Jesus, I don't want my hand held, especially when I'm logged in as an Admin!
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: ScottSwingleComputers
I got it loaded last night. Athlon 64 3500 with 1 gb of ram. System is rated a 3. I am mostly frusterated by the slowness of the whole thing. What should be simple tasks max out the cpu and take forever to open up. Interestingly enough though, Office 2007 apps load lightning fast. ATI drivers loaded great, haven't gotten Creative drivers loaded though. I tried the Vista beta 1 drivers, but I still dont have any sound. Maybe because I'm running 64 bit?

Nero version 6 installed ok. I got a message when launching the install that there was a known problem with nero and vista, but I told it to install anyways. I haven't burned with Nero itself, but I have burned 2 discs with DVD Shrink, which uses Nero, so I dont expect any problems with that.

As far as user interface, I do like it for the most part. I am getting frusterated at not being able to find settings that I need though. On the other hand, the search is awesome. Open up the control panel and type in the search what you want to do, and it finds you the correct control panel app. Now if only I knew how to get to that setting without searching every time... Even going to windows help and getting a step by step walkthrough (when trying to find autoplay settings) told me to go the control panel and search for autoplay.

The sidebar, while cool, seems mostly useless. I have a cpu meter, an analog clock, and the slideshow thingy. While from a technology aspect its cool to be able to do that, do I really need an analog clock there? And the picture slideshow...I haven't figured out how to change the folder to someplace I actually have pics that I would like to see. I dont really want to duplicate my pics into the folder it works out of just to use the slideshow.

I'm sure it'll all grow on me, and I'm going to attempt to use it as much as possible and not boot back to XP, but it has a lot of room to improve IMHO.

Help is definitely much improved - I think. I havent really had to use help much for XP, but seems like I'm living in it in vista to try to do a simple thing.

The sidebar is a neat idea, but its already too late. I cant see how its any superior to konfabulator/yahoo widgets, which has been out much longer, and has far many widgets already available. I guess its about time, but nothing to get excited over.

More ranting:

The new explorer is an excercise in frustration. I want to know what brilliant genius decided to get rid of list view in explorer, so I can slap him in the face.

Right now, a few folders have default templates, the rest are all default to details. I really, honestly, do not need to know the date of last modification for every single file - I'd rather have that space for viewing more files. I can use small icons, but its similar as in xp, it goes across rows instead of columns, which is beyond useless. Large icons aren't wide enough to accomodate filenames. Extra large icons are just plain too big. Tiles take up too much space. But I could live without list if I was able to at least conveniently set up folder properties...but something so obvious is just not there. It wasnt there in XP, but it wasnt as big of a deal then - now it is. I wish I could just right click a folder, and have it and all subfolders act a certain way - I can technically, but only if its music, documents or video, and even then, I have to use microsoft's template. If I want to change it, I have to do it for EVERY SINGLE FOLDER across the entire system, or each folder individually....

A few good things. It's easy to put your favorite places on the nav bar in explorer. And the address bar that lets you get to a certain folder level quick is brilliant. But it gets much worse from there. The preview pane is also fairly useless. It takes a while for the preview to come up...might as well have just opened the file, and besides, it's already basically showing you the same thumbnail as the icon. So basically, in order for it to be of any use, it needs to be bigger than your icons. Do that, and you won't have much room for icons left. And best of all, when you resize the explorer window, the preview pane stays the same size, instead of changing size proportionally, so you either have a small useless preview pane, or a large preview pane that blocks out the view of the actual files youre trying to preview unless it's maximized.

And we now come to the most important innovation of all. The "open" button. Just what we needed. I suppose its useful for those who lack the dexterity to double click. Which leads me to yet another obvious irritation - you can't customize any of the buttons/toolbars.

I could keep on going...that new explorer is a wreck...it's got a few good ideas, but overall, they need to go back to the drawing board on a lot of it. I guess they removed list because it didnt gracefully fit in with their little zoom bar, which ironically, does everything but gracefully zoom.

So just like aero glass, MS took something that wasnt broken, and made it pretty and useless.

Windows account protection is an absolute atrocity. I really do not need to have my screen go blank, a fake dialog box pop up, to ask me to do routine stuff because it assumes I'm an idiot. I turned it off, but it would actually be useful on a guest account. But apparently, I must withstand the torture of it in admin mode in order for standard users to be not affected - you can't turn it off by account. Sigh.

None of the new apps are worthwhile.

MP10 is nothing more than a facelift as far as I can tell. Apparently, after all these years, MS still hasnt figured out that if MP is supposed to be remotely useful with large music libraries, we're going to need to drill through our libraries like itunes (genre>artists>album) instead of being greeted with one giant list of genres, artists, or albums. It's such a simple thing, and it's an absolute dealbreaker.

Windows calendar is clunky, contacts is as useless as ever - it opens up in explorer, with half the space wasted on stuff not applicable to it - try and turn it off like the preview pane, and you end up turning it off in explorer itself. Windows mail is the same outlook express as we've always used. IE7 is a worthwhile upgrade, but I've moved on from IE like everyone else here a LONG time ago, and its just plain not as good as FF or Opera.

I could care less about movie maker, and solitaire.

I really hate to say it, cause I was looking forward to it, but at the end of the day, this is going to be nothing more than a visual upgrade at this rate. Unlike Office 2007 however, which is the most brilliant piece of software to come out of MS in years. I heard that they got the director of office 2007 to take over direction of Vista...hopefully some will rub off.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
But apparently, I must withstand the torture of it in admin mode in order for standard users to be not affected - you can't turn it off by account. Sigh.
There are separate policies for administrators. 'User account control: behavior of the elevation prompt for administrators in account approval mode' and 'user account control: behavior of the elevation prompt for standard users'

MS still hasnt figured out that if MP is supposed to be remotely useful with large music libraries, we're going to need to drill through our libraries like itunes (genre>artists>album) instead of being greeted with one giant list of genres, artists, or albums. It's such a simple thing, and it's an absolute dealbreaker.
You've got to be joking. Did you not try the search field at the top right? It's ridiculously fast and easy to drill through your library with it.

You can even do advanced searches like 'genre:rock' or 'albumartist:beck'. It also supports logic operators like AND OR and NOT. MP11 (not 10 by the way) makes iTunes look like a joke.
 
Mar 6, 2006
109
0
0
Ok, installed it and tried it. One thing though, DON'T INSTALL THE 64BIT VERSION IT'S HOPELESSLY TERRIBLE, CR4P, BAD!!!!!!!!!11111

No really, the 64bit version is a joke, 10 mins to unzip a 10MB zip file (10 secs on 32bit version), took ages to install ATI cat drivers (pretty quick on 32bit), takes forever to boot, forever to install, really really slow etc etc.

So I'm using 32bit version instead, and seems pretty good so far, I really like the Aero interface especially Flip3D (WinKey + Tab) and the way to shows a live preview of any program that is minimised when you hover over the tab, even works with UT2004. Downside is it's a memory hog though, dunno about other people but mine sits at about 900MB after install (I only have a gig), I know it's in debugged mode and there's loads of debugging and testing code so hopefully the memory footprint should come down.

If anyone is using the 64bit version, try the 32bit version and see if it's faster.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
I love it so far. I can't believe how much more stable Beta2 is from the last build in Beta1.. and they're only a few weeks apart! Such a huge difference.

I still don't fully understand how the network control center works... i'm assuming that all those networks that were created, i could customize each one specficially. For example, at work there's 2 networks i need to access, one is DHCP, so i have it set to Auto, and the other i need to specify an IP address. When i connect my laptop to either network, Vista automatically determines which network i'm in (which is really amazing to me! yeah i'm easily impressed), and i would assume use the settings that i specify before... but it doesn't. If i move from the DHCP network to the other network, it doesn't switch over the IP that i used previously on that network... instead it still tries to autodetect. And vice versa.

I'm so hoping this is just a bug or i'm not using it correctly, because that would be an awesome function if i can just connect my laptop to a network, and it automatically uses the proper configuration that i had used previously on that network (it can detect which network i'm in). I'm currently using Mobile Netswitch, which doesn't work in Vista...however in XP, i thought that was the greatest thing... and that didn't even automatically detect the network! I had to open up the program, select which profile i wanted to use, and then activate it.

Another problem that came up recently is my IE is fubar. Opening it seems to lock up the browser. It just won't respond until i manually terminate it. I'm going to try reinstalling IE and see if that fixes it. I can't get firefox to be the default browser either.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: stash
MS still hasnt figured out that if MP is supposed to be remotely useful with large music libraries, we're going to need to drill through our libraries like itunes (genre>artists>album) instead of being greeted with one giant list of genres, artists, or albums. It's such a simple thing, and it's an absolute dealbreaker.
You've got to be joking. Did you not try the search field at the top right? It's ridiculously fast and easy to drill through your library with it.

You can even do advanced searches like 'genre:rock' or 'albumartist:beck'. It also supports logic operators like AND OR and NOT. MP11 (not 10 by the way) makes iTunes look like a joke.

I know that very well, but I'm trying to browse my library, not search - two entirely different things. And it is just useless to have a giant list of artists spat out at me. Sometimes, I don't remember the name of the album, or the band, or whatever - my library is massive. I might not know what I want to hear until I stumble upon it. I like being able to shuffle up a genre. iTunes is a joke overall, but that one basic feature makes it worthwhile to me.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
Installed it on my AMD 2500+ OCed to a 3100
1.5 GB RAM
850XT

It runs very smoothly expect for the obvious slowdowns that have nothing to do with my computer, just a couple of bugs on certain things.

Biggest problem I have is I can't get my SATA HDD to work. It is my second HDD, and if I can't get it working, I will have to get rid of Vista because of a lack of storage space. Also, in Warcraft 3, the sound doesnt' work once you patch the game, and I havn't found a fix for that yet.

I havn't gotten to how well games run in this yet, but as long as there is not a downgrade in performance, I really like the Aero interface.

To me, it is good because it gives those of us with gaming machines added visuals. I can see it being a big problem with people whose computer is just not up to par, but you can always go and disable it. I just like the fact that Windows can look better on a good computer rather than just an OK computer. No other windows did this.
 

thebigdude

Senior member
Apr 27, 2005
559
0
0
Install was easy, or so I thought. I have 12 devices that did not install and they are all unidentified. Now it asks for the driver cds, I put them in and still have no drivers. Of course I'm trying the 64 bit version and the drivers I have are 32 bit. The biggest headache is that neither my wireless card nor my ethernet was picked up so I have to try to find drivers while in XP. Then reboot in Vista and see if they install. I'm having trouble even finding the drivers I'm looking for.

I love the gadgets and the glass look. The preview you get of a program when you mouse over it in the taskbar is awesome. I think I will really like it once I get my driver situation figured out.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
I know that very well, but I'm trying to browse my library, not search - two entirely different things. And it is just useless to have a giant list of artists spat out at me. Sometimes, I don't remember the name of the album, or the band, or whatever - my library is massive. I might not know what I want to hear until I stumble upon it. I like being able to shuffle up a genre. iTunes is a joke overall, but that one basic feature makes it worthwhile to me.
I still don't know what you're talking about. You can sort the library by a slew of different categories.

Let's see, there's recently added, artist, album, songs, genre, year, rating, contributing artist, composer, parental rating, online stores and folder. It uses the same sort of breadcrumb naviation as explorer, up at the top left.

Selecting a category (like year, for example) will arange your library into stacks which you can drill into.

So with the categories coupled with the search features, I don't understand how it could possibly get any easier to manage a large library.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
I love it so far. I can't believe how much more stable Beta2 is from the last build in Beta1.. and they're only a few weeks apart! Such a huge difference.
Not really. After beta1 was released (actually, several weeks before that), the code was branched and the beta2 branch was started.

All of the builds between beta1 and beta2 (including the most recent builds released to testers) were considered beta2 builds because they came from that branch. 5384.4 is the 'official' beta2 build because it met the quality gates and bug bars set for that particular milestone.

 

rikadik

Senior member
Dec 30, 2004
649
0
0
Originally posted by: BD2003
iTunes is a joke overall, but that one basic feature makes it worthwhile to me

Just out of interest, why do you think iTunes is a joke?
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Just out of interest, why do you think iTunes is a joke?
It's slow and ugly for starters. It's library management sucks. The only thing it has going for it is that it is the only thing that will work with an iPod (well, there are other smaller programs, but I haven't found one I like).

I have an iPod and I love it, but I can't stand syncing it. If I could sync my iPod with WMP11, I would be a happy camper.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: stash
I know that very well, but I'm trying to browse my library, not search - two entirely different things. And it is just useless to have a giant list of artists spat out at me. Sometimes, I don't remember the name of the album, or the band, or whatever - my library is massive. I might not know what I want to hear until I stumble upon it. I like being able to shuffle up a genre. iTunes is a joke overall, but that one basic feature makes it worthwhile to me.
I still don't know what you're talking about. You can sort the library by a slew of different categories.

Let's see, there's recently added, artist, album, songs, genre, year, rating, contributing artist, composer, parental rating, online stores and folder. It uses the same sort of breadcrumb naviation as explorer, up at the top left.

Selecting a category (like year, for example) will arange your library into stacks which you can drill into.

So with the categories coupled with the search features, I don't understand how it could possibly get any easier to manage a large library.

I understand it can be done, it just can't be done easily. I select everything into year, and then I get everything from that year. Then thats as far as I can browse, I have to search from there. I can just pick genre, then artist, then album then song. Takes two seconds in itunes, without any of this convoluted stacking crap, and lets me easily stop at any point when I've filtered down as far as I want. Sure, i can put together a logical string that does the same thing essentially, but I don't want to. If this IS possible in WMP11, it is so unintuitive that if I can't easily figure it out, no one can.

And itunes is the most bloated piece of software I have ever used in my life. I really don't need a media player to use 50mb and take over half of my system resources when it runs, I don't need it to install quicktime, etc
 

rikadik

Senior member
Dec 30, 2004
649
0
0
Well yeah I'd agree it's not the prettiest thing but that's not important to me. I think MP only retains its looks on the Now Playing tab, the libary looks a mess.

Not sure what you mean by slow, I've never noticed any problems. Podcasts are a big bonus, not actually sure theres similar in MP, but if you have a favourite artist (particularly DJs who are always posting their live mixes) its brilliant. Or you can get the days news on your iPod every day you leave the house with no effort.

Tbh, the only downside is that it only does audio well. But then, is that actually a problem? I don't mind using a different app.
 

the cobbler

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
643
0
0
I can't believe Vista x64 is causing such problems

I am really enjoying it so far. once you turn off User Account baloney, no problems.

functional drivers are installed for everything on my rig except the Zboard.

 

Cardio

Senior member
Jun 11, 2003
903
0
76
After running a bunch of benchmarks, I find it runs between 8 and 9% slower than XP. This is on 3 different computers. Hope it improves!
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: Cardio
After running a bunch of benchmarks, I find it runs between 8 and 9% slower than XP. This is on 3 different computers. Hope it improves!

8-9% isn't half bad considering it's a beta.
 

the cobbler

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
643
0
0
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Cardio
After running a bunch of benchmarks, I find it runs between 8 and 9% slower than XP. This is on 3 different computers. Hope it improves!

8-9% isn't half bad considering it's a beta.


especially if AeroGlass is turned on
 
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