Your experience with Vista Beta 2

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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: stash
Because beta2 is a beta? To say that a build that is a pre-RC1 build is better than a beta build is a pretty obvious comment, and shows his lack of understanding of the development process.

You're just being a jackass. It's only obvious if you used it yourself. Most of us havent, which is why we'd be reading his site. It's on the RC branch, but it isn't RC1, so technically it's still a beta. And him saying that its better than beta 2 is just is opinion on the new build. I don't know why him saying that they should have waited until this build to release it to the public is getting your panties in a bunch.

Seriously, you sound like an asshat here. Acting like a child that thinks others are stupid because they don't appear to know one small thing, which I am sure he probably knows far more about than you do anyway.
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
Originally posted by: jlbenedict
I've read reports of another "post beta 2" release of Vista.

Release 5456

Anyone heard of this??

I think that has already been released. Sometime earlier this week or last week...
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
I don't know why him saying that they should have waited until this build to release it to the public is getting your panties in a bunch.
Because in order to release beta2, Vista had to meet a certain level of quality. Things like bug bars and quality gates. Sure you could go beyond those levels that are set for beta2 and release something better, but that isn't the point. Paul knows all about these levels, and for him to not recognize that beta2 was released once those levels were met is silly.

Seriously, you sound like an asshat here. Acting like a child that thinks others are stupid because they don't appear to know one small thing, which I am sure he probably knows far more about than you do anyway.
Paul has demonstrated his complete lack of understanding in quite a lot of things over the years. He has also demonstrated how completely full of himself he is. He does provide useful information to people outside of the development process, but he comes off as bragging about his 'inside' access and constantly makes inappropriate comments about stuff he knows little about. And from the access that Paul does have, he should know better than to write stuff like '5456 is what beta2 should have been'.

This is clear from his constant flip-flopping on IE7 and Vista. One article says it is complete crap, the next says it's great. He's a hack who writes in order to generate advertising clicks.

And you might want to tone down the ad-homs toward members of the forum, chief.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,378
126
www.anyf.ca
Vista looks cool and stuff, and I'm sure there will be lot of cool themes available for it later on and it will be quite customizable. But all that hits you like a pile of bricks in terms of performance.

http://www.iceteks.com/forums/uploads/post-22-1149991410_untitledJPG.jpg

That's IDLE! I left it sit there for a few minutes, and the graph just wont stop. Even XP is better then that. That test server can handle 4 win2k3 VMs running at the same time, but it was crawling with that single Vista VM.

Specs of the server are:
Athlon 2100+
1.5GB of ram
two HDDs (80GB and 160GB if I recall)
win2k3 server as host OS.


Nothing fancy, but its not like it's legancy hardware either. A typical home user will need to upgrade their PC to go to vista, specially where I live, considering most people are running 9x.


Thankfully, the eye candy can be turned off though, but Vista just seems to be a pig in general, so while this does make a difference, it still wont be as snappy as win2k or xp.
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
I can see where Vista will push that processor to its limits.

And aren't you using VMWare? Or was that someone else who posted that on another topic?
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
I don't know why him saying that they should have waited until this build to release it to the public is getting your panties in a bunch.
Because in order to release beta2, Vista had to meet a certain level of quality. Things like bug bars and quality gates. Sure you could go beyond those levels that are set for beta2 and release something better, but that isn't the point. Paul knows all about these levels, and for him to not recognize that beta2 was released once those levels were met is silly.[/quote]

Thats not the point he is making - the point is, and most of this thread and the public seems to agree with, is that regardless of whatever internal quality goal MS set for itself, vista beta 2 was not ready for public consumption. It is a beta in every sense of the word, but too premature to release to the world, which is now getting a bad impression of vista, especially those who aren't into this kind of stuff enough to REALLY understand what a beta entails. MS may very well be happy with the Beta as it is, but most people are not.

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand this very basic idea. Him saying "Beta 2 was not ready to be unleased upon the world" is a lot more useful and informative than him saying "No one should complain that Beta 2 is overwhelmingly unstable and buggy because it is exactly what MS planned upon." Considering they appear to have significantly tidied it up in a short period of time, they would have been better off holding back a week or two.

Paul has demonstrated his complete lack of understanding in quite a lot of things over the years. He has also demonstrated how completely full of himself he is. He does provide useful information to people outside of the development process, but he comes off as bragging about his 'inside' access and constantly makes inappropriate comments about stuff he knows little about. And from the access that Paul does have, he should know better than to write stuff like '5456 is what beta2 should have been'.

He does come off as somewhat full of himself, but build 5456 is still what the public release of Beta 2 should have been, regardless of MS's internal goals. Whatever you think of him personally, he's done enough panning of MS recently that I have no doubt he's not just a biased shill for MS, if it sucks, he's going to tell us it sucks.

This is clear from his constant flip-flopping on IE7 and Vista. One article says it is complete crap, the next says it's great. He's a hack who writes in order to generate advertising clicks.

It has seemed pretty consistent to me, taking into account the changes vista has gone through over the past couple of months/years. It went from feature laded but vapor, to stripped but coming soon, to stripped further, delayed, and now back on track. Obviously opinions are going to change during all that chaos.

And you might want to tone down the ad-homs toward members of the forum, chief.

Welcome to ATOT. I call them as I see them. Someone arguing that a reporter is an asshat who doesnt know what he's talking about, based on a technicality that 99.99% of people could care less about, deserves to be called an asshat themselves.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,910
12,378
126
www.anyf.ca
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
I can see where Vista will push that processor to its limits.

And aren't you using VMWare? Or was that someone else who posted that on another topic?

Yeah thats in VMware, so there may be a slight overhead involved. But that same server can handle 4 VMs with win2k3 server running in each one, and it runs smooth enough. I did a presentation on Ethereal and had 4 VMs running and was doing various things in them, it only got very slow when I fired up my office 2003 powerpoint presentation with those 4 VMs going at once.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Thats not the point he is making - the point is, and most of this thread and the public seems to agree with, is that regardless of whatever internal quality goal MS set for itself, vista beta 2 was not ready for public consumption
Here's the point that you and your buddy Paul can't seem to wrap your head around: how do you think it GOT that way? Oh yeah...because of bug reports filed by users of beta2!

The point of releasing a beta is not to release a great build. The point of releasing a beta is not so that people can run around bleating how they are cooler than everyone else because they are running Vista. The point of a beta program is to solicit feedback and bug reports from a very large number of users, representing a huge number of hardware and software combinations, languages and user scenarios. This data is used to make the OS better.

And guess what? It worked.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Originally posted by: stash
Thats not the point he is making - the point is, and most of this thread and the public seems to agree with, is that regardless of whatever internal quality goal MS set for itself, vista beta 2 was not ready for public consumption
Here's the point that you and your buddy Paul can't seem to wrap your head around: how do you think it GOT that way? Oh yeah...because of bug reports filed by users of beta2!

The point of releasing a beta is not to release a great build. The point of releasing a beta is not so that people can run around bleating how they are cooler than everyone else because they are running Vista. The point of a beta program is to solicit feedback and bug reports from a very large number of users, representing a huge number of hardware and software combinations, languages and user scenarios. This data is used to make the OS better.

And guess what? It worked.

Because no one in the world has ever tested Vista before Beta 2. Hell, they couldn't even keep it properly compatible with their own star software office. Xp Beta 2 was not nearly this premature.

But whatever, its getting better, with time it will only improve, and hopefully RC1 will be more polished...hell, itd better be, if it really is going to be an RC.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Because no one in the world has ever tested Vista before Beta 2
What? Thousands of people have been testing Vista, long before Beta 2. TAP customers, MSDN, Connect, whatever.

Hell, they couldn't even keep it properly compatible with their own star software office
Not sure what you're ranting about here, Office 2007 beta2 and Office 2003 both work fine on Vista beta2.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
What? Thousands of people have been testing Vista, long before Beta 2. TAP customers, MSDN, Connect, whatever.

Exactly my point. Sarcasm, silly.


Not sure what you're ranting about here, Office 2007 beta2 and Office 2003 both work fine on Vista beta2.

I'm having many a problem with the combo, that I dont have with xp/2007.

 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Exactly my point. Sarcasm, silly.
The point still stands. If you're going to keep pushing a beta release back until it meets some arbitrary level set by His Highness Thurott, why release anything at all. What's he going to say when RC1 is released? This is what 5456.5 should've been?

I'm having many a problem with the combo, that I dont have with xp/2007.
Since there were actually two different combos in my statement, I'm going to take a stab that you mean Vista/Office07. What problems, specifically, are you having? Have you filed bugs on any of them?
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
I can see where Vista will push that processor to its limits.

And aren't you using VMWare? Or was that someone else who posted that on another topic?

Yeah thats in VMware, so there may be a slight overhead involved. But that same server can handle 4 VMs with win2k3 server running in each one, and it runs smooth enough. I did a presentation on Ethereal and had 4 VMs running and was doing various things in them, it only got very slow when I fired up my office 2003 powerpoint presentation with those 4 VMs going at once.


Well this is Vista we're talking about. It's still a Beta as is, and I'm not sure how much of a difference there is when running VMware versus the real thing.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
The point still stands. If you're going to keep pushing a beta release back until it meets some arbitrary level set by His Highness Thurott, why release anything at all. What's he going to say when RC1 is released? This is what 5456.5 should've been?

It is not a completely arbitrary level. When MS needs to nail SERIOUS performance and usability problems down, they should leave it to the closed beta. The first release to the public should be stable and compatible enough that the majority of users are not going to get a premature bad impression of it, which is what is happening now.

It should be at or close to the point where a user can use it 24/7, so *usability* issues can be nailed, rather than just struggling to get it up and running, and then not using it extensively because they can't stand to deal with it in it's current shape.

Then, RC1, and subsequent RCs, should be released after a time when MS is confident that major bugs, hardware issues, and interface/usability problems can be kept to a minimum, making it a true RC.


I'm having many a problem with the combo, that I dont have with xp/2007.
Since there were actually two different combos in my statement, I'm going to take a stab that you mean Vista/Office07. What problems, specifically, are you having? Have you filed bugs on any of them?[/quote]

Saving some files take forever. The mail component of outlook mysteriously does not work. I cannot sync it with my treo. I have to click through ten dialog boxes when starting word because I dont use macros, and apparently there is a few now embedded in my normal template, which cannot be erased. etc.
 

squirrel dog

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,564
48
91
I have it up on a co. laptop. Amr 2.2 1 gig mem. 80 gig h/d . Seems smooth,picked up all drivers for this machine . I like it . Also picked up all network drivers/wireless is no trouble.
 

SRoode

Senior member
Dec 9, 2004
243
0
0
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Vista looks cool and stuff, and I'm sure there will be lot of cool themes available for it later on and it will be quite customizable. But all that hits you like a pile of bricks in terms of performance.

http://www.iceteks.com/forums/uploads/post-22-1149991410_untitledJPG.jpg

That's IDLE! I left it sit there for a few minutes, and the graph just wont stop. Even XP is better then that. That test server can handle 4 win2k3 VMs running at the same time, but it was crawling with that single Vista VM.

Specs of the server are:
Athlon 2100+
1.5GB of ram
two HDDs (80GB and 160GB if I recall)
win2k3 server as host OS.

Nothing fancy, but its not like it's legancy hardware either. A typical home user will need to upgrade their PC to go to vista, specially where I live, considering most people are running 9x.

Thankfully, the eye candy can be turned off though, but Vista just seems to be a pig in general, so while this does make a difference, it still wont be as snappy as win2k or xp.

First, you have 1GB, not 1.5GB (according to your screenshot)
Second, you are running a 4 year old OS on a 4+ year old CPU.

You can't expect new OS's to run smoothly on old hardware. You have the choice to stick with your OS, and your current hardware. You also have the choice to upgrade your hardware and move up to more current OS's.

Otherwise, we'd all still be running DOS on 8086's running at 4.77 MHZ.
 

SRoode

Senior member
Dec 9, 2004
243
0
0
Oh, and 3rd... It's a BETA version that is almost 1 year away from release.

IMHO, it is a VERY stable a usable OS for a BETA that will not be officially released for almost 1 year.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: SRoode
Oh, and 3rd... It's a BETA version that is almost 1 year away from release.

IMHO, it is a VERY stable a usable OS for a BETA that will not be officially released for almost 1 year.

I thought it was due out november to oems and such. Or did it get pushed back more recently?
 

htne

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2001
2,360
0
76
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: SRoode
Oh, and 3rd... It's a BETA version that is almost 1 year away from release.

IMHO, it is a VERY stable a usable OS for a BETA that will not be officially released for almost 1 year.

I thought it was due out november to oems and such. Or did it get pushed back more recently?


You are correct, it is due to OEMs in November (approximately 4 months away).
 

SRoode

Senior member
Dec 9, 2004
243
0
0
According to outdated web sites, it's Nov/Dec 06.
According to this issue of CPU Magazine, it's next year.
 
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