Your thoughts on God

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
I find the concept of God fascinating. Whether you're a theist or atheist if you're not fascinated by the universe around you, including the people of Earth, and the ideas they express, I feel very bad for you.

So I will share my thoughts on God, because I find this sub forum to be

1) Inhabited by some very intelligent and open minded folks.

3) Tolerant of other people's ideas even if they may seem strange or even antithetical to their own.

4) Willing to look over my shortcomings such as my inability to count to 3 without screwing up. Just kidding about that last one, feel free, in fact I encourage you to find my faults. That is how I learn, and even if I forget to thank you for it, I'd like you to know I do appreciate it.

So let's get to it.

We are going to have to make some suppositions here. I will list them now. In fact most of what I am posting will be supposition. I do not believe these are so, I am merely supposing that if X is so, then Y.

1) God exists. There is no evidence of God's existence, so we will first suppose God exists.

2) God is light. We will also suppose that certain religions who claim that God is light, got at least that much right. Photons. In so far as we understand them. Some religions say God said let there be light, and then there was light.

If this is so then God created himself, and the universe. Then it must follow God is the entire visible universe. He created himself and created everything in it.

3) God is neither omnipotent, omnipresent, nor omniscient. But is benevolent. If he is omnipotent, omniscient and is unwilling to dispense evil, then why worship him, why call him benevolent? If he is unwilling, then why call him good or benevolent?

4) Evil is just darkness, or the lack of light. Evil doesn't exist any more than shadows do. Shadows are not a thing, they are not material nor energy. They are merely the lack of energy or material. Just like cold doesn't exist. Only heat does. Cold is just our way of assigning a word to the property of a lack of heat.

I do not believe humans intend to do harm to each other, nor their environment. I think they just don't know any better. They lack the light, the truth, the knowledge to not want to commit harm. As one religious figure I'm sure you are aware of said as he was tortured on the cross: "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." -Jesus Christ

What insight he had, without any of the luxuries I have of a scientific background and a degree in science from an accredited institution and all of the knowledge of scientists that preceded our current knowledge that our knowledge was built upon.

As one prominent scientist put it "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants." -Sir Isaac Newton

I too owe them a debt of gratitude I can never repay. So my sharing of my knowledge as much as I can in the limited time I have will have to suffice. May it benefit those who succeed me as I have benefited from those before me.

So evil doesn't exist anymore. Spelling incorrect on purpose. It should be any more as I wrote it above. But if you agree with me, then evil no longer exists, in your mind. For you, it no longer exists at all. There, I have done away with evil. You are welcome. Well it isn't that simple is it? Let's move on.

All light and all knowledge is just a form of energy. Without energy, humans would have no knowledge, nor exist for that matter. Your thoughts are stored in your brain in the form of electrical, and chemical energy.

These electrical impulses are mediated by virtual photons. Again a supposition due to a lack of evidence but consider the lack of evidence of the Higgs Boson just a short time ago. That didn't stop Peter Higgs from hypothesizing it's existence and we are the better for it.

This is a situation in which I support following an idea despite a lack of evidence. When it is in the pursuit of knowledge and not to do harm as some religious fanatics will have you do.

They will say believe in God merely because someone said so.

That is fine by me. In fact it is the very thing I am doing right now.

What is not fine by me is using that as a stepping stone to commit violence, or any sort of harm on your fellow man or environment.

You must respect your environment and that includes all forms of life in it.

Sometimes it is necessary to end such life if it threatens your own. Be it bacteria or murderous human beings, animals or insects. If a tiger, human or potentially malaria infected mosquito is about to attack you, you have a right to defend yourself in any way you see fit while causing the least harm possible.

So if evil is just darkness, then is dark energy, the energy that is causing the expansion of the universe at an accelerating rate evil?

It seeks to increase darkness which would decrease light.

If all the above is so, then is dark energy a cancer, and is God sick? Perhaps that is why God is more occupied with his own problems and the harm humans cause on each other is of little concern to such a being.

Or perhaps humans were created to solve the problem for him. After all, if God is everything in the universe and we are in it, then we are just an extension of God. Merely a part of him. Like his thumb for example. Or an eyelash. Or his brain. Or just a small part of his brain. A very small part so far. But we are growing. So God is learning. So are we.

It would follow then that destroying things around you. Anything. Would be tantamount to your destroying some of your brain cells.

I realize human's have penchant for self destruction but I ask you to minimize that if and when you can. Drugs are bad. Mmmk? They are not the only thing. A lot of things can destroy your brain cells. A lot of things can destroy you and your environment.

Finally I submit for your approval and suppose that if we are created in his image as according to certain religions then: 5) As we are sentient, so then is the universe.

There is so much more to all of this. But time beckons me to other tasks, and the thread is getting too long for some to want to even begin to read, much less stick with to the end. Perhaps I should write a book someday.

Thank you for reading all of this. I know it's a lot but there's a lot more. If you want I can revise the OP when I find more time to add to it. Let me know. If most of you think it's too long already then I will stop. May no harm come to any of you today or ever. Though I know this is not possible. Yet.
 
Last edited:

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,601
29,313
136
Assuming supposition 1 is true, I still have problems with supposition 3. Perhaps he is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient but has willingly bound himself to some sort of higher code on non-intervention. Something along the lines of a prime directive. Of course for this to be true, a lot of the Bible has to be false, or maybe not even that. Maybe embedded in his code there are exceptions. Who really knows?

The only thing I have resigned myself to is that I will not be worshiping him. At least, not unless he comes down and proves himself to me first hand. I will not be searching him out, either. I'm not certain he even exists and I don't need him even if he does. If it turns out he does exist and chooses to punish me for these things in the afterlife (again assuming there is an afterlife), then I will make it my eternal goal to overthrow him even if it means aligning myself with his enemies, assuming he has any. If I truly am powerless to overthrow him, then I will resign myself to mocking him while he tortures me for all eternity.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
I find the concept of God fascinating. Whether you're a theist or atheist if you're not fascinated by the universe around you, including the people of Earth, and the ideas they express, I feel very bad for you.


1) God exists. There is no evidence of God's existence, so we will first suppose God exists.

This is interesting. Even with no direct scientific evidence, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence.

There has NEVER been a time in human history where we weren't religious in some way, shape, or form...and there has never been a time where we didn't worship something, albeit the Sun, a snake, whatever, while looking for a Creator.

I'd say we're hardwired (Created by God) to be this way, to look to Him, to search for Him.

Even now being the most technologically/scientifically advanced than ever before, we generally wonder about a Creator....even if we don't think he cares about humans.

The sheer diversity of religion and god(s) leads me to believe we're Created with a natural inclination to find out who/what he is.

2) God is light. We will also suppose that certain religions who claim that God is light, got at least that much right. Photons. In so far as we understand them. Some religions say God said let there be light, and then there was light.

In religion anyway, "light" is associated with "truth", and "darkness" with "falsehood".

You eluded to that below.


3) God is neither omnipotent, omnipresent, nor omniscient. But is benevolent. If he is omnipotent, omniscient and is unwilling to dispense evil, then why worship him, why call him benevolent? If he is unwilling, then why call him good or benevolent?

I don't think God is unwilling -- he could be just waiting for the right time. After all, if he is eternal, then he counts time differently than we do. If he's all powerful, then he doesn't need to prove to us lowly humans that he is. If he's all knowing, then he has a better view of things than we do.

What we consider "unwilling" could really mean "extreme patience" from his POV.

4) Evil is just darkness, or the lack of light. Evil doesn't exist any more than shadows do. Shadows are not a thing, they are not material nor energy. They are merely the lack of energy or material. Just like cold doesn't exist. Only heat does. Cold is just our way of assigning a word to the property of a lack of heat.

I think evil exists, but not as a "thing". I think more on the lines of a "force" or "influence" which can corrupt and can permeate the mind.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
If God exists and God is light then is he subject to the laws of physics? Photons obey the laws of physics. Does God?

The real question to be asked is "Why do we need a God?"
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
If God exists and God is light then is he subject to the laws of physics? Photons obey the laws of physics. Does God?

Yes. As I stated in the OP God is the entire universe and vice-versa. The universe obeys the laws of physics. Even laws of physics we might not be aware of.

The real question to be asked is "Why do we need a God?"

God is the observable universe. Without which we would not exist.

Maybe a better question would be "Why does God need us?" After all we are his creation and not the other way around. Although, since we are just a part of God, then he is as much our creation as we are his. People create their own image of God in their own mind, right or wrong.

If the suppositions in the OP are correct, he needs us to find a cure for his "illness" dark energy. But since we are just a part of him, then it is he who needs a part of himself to find that cure. That part of himself is us.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
The sheer diversity of religion and god(s) leads me to believe we're Created with a natural inclination to find out who/what he is.

I think we are hardwired to look for CAUSE. I also think we are wired to find the easiest method to a solution. It turns out that 'God did it' is the easiest answer to most of the big questions, and until recently that answer was good enough since the main thing people needed to know about those things were STAY AWAY!

For most of history gods were not beings to be loved, they were things to be feared. The Old Testament a good example of this. In The Old Testament a smart man didn’t love god, he was scared that god would notice him. In almost all cases when god noticed you in The Old Testament you were screwed. That was the purpose of religion. When lightening stuck people said 'god did it', and what they meant was 'stay the hell away or he might notice you and then you will be in a world of hurt'.
 
Last edited:

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
This is how my priest explains it to me. I'm catholic.

1) God is perfect. Perfect love. Not light. But love.
2) The opposite of God is Satan. Perfect selfishness. Not darkness. But selfishness.

Evil and bad things happen in life because people are selfish. The more selfish, the further from God they are.

Now does that mean God does not allow bad things to happen? Absolutely not. Look at him as the father. Will your father allow you to be hurt? Absolutely. What if he is trying to teach you how to ride a bike. You could fall and hurt yourself. But he is there to pick you up. He allows you to hurt yourself so you can find joy in riding your bike. That's what a loving thing does. Brings you joy. Sometimes that joy can leave you with bumps and bruises. Someone who is selfish wouldn't even teach their kids how to ride a bike, and wouldn't be there to pick you up when you fall.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
I think we are hardwired to look for CAUSE. I also think we are wired to find the easiest method to a solution. It turns out that 'God did it' is the easiest answer to most of the big questions, and until recently that answer was good enough since the main thing people needed to know about those things were STAY AWAY!

In the context of my post, "cause" and "God" are the same thing. Even now, people with vast scientific knowledge still believe in a personal creator. The answer is still good enough. We're just understanding the details of His creation.



For most of history gods were not beings to be loved, they were things to be feared. The Old Testament a good example of this. In The Old Testament a smart man didn’t love god, he was scared that god would notice him. In almost all cases when god noticed you in The Old Testament you were screwed. That was the purpose of religion. When lightening stuck people said god did it, and what they meant was stay the hell away or he might notice you, then you will be in a world of hurt.

What was the purpose of religion? I don't understand what you mean.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
This is how my priest explains it to me. I'm catholic.

1) God is perfect. Perfect love. Not light. But love.
2) The opposite of God is Satan. Perfect selfishness. Not darkness. But selfishness.

Evil and bad things happen in life because people are selfish. The more selfish, the further from God they are.

Now does that mean God does not allow bad things to happen? Absolutely not. Look at him as the father. Will your father allow you to be hurt? Absolutely. What if he is trying to teach you how to ride a bike. You could fall and hurt yourself. But he is there to pick you up. He allows you to hurt yourself so you can find joy in riding your bike. That's what a loving thing does. Brings you joy. Sometimes that joy can leave you with bumps and bruises. Someone who is selfish wouldn't even teach their kids how to ride a bike, and wouldn't be there to pick you up when you fall.

Ah yes. The God allows bad things to happen so you can learn trope. That is why god allows men to gang rape 3 year old children until they are dead. Those children needed to learn the valuable lesson that being gang raped until death is not something you want to experience.
I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks that bad things happen so we can learn from them has not seen the depths of depravity that this world is capable of.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
I think god is a man-made creation to explain that which we cannot explain -at least, at the start. Earthquakes, lightning, storms, the sun, the moon, etc. From there, the idea of god evolved from conflict between ancient tribes. My god is better than your god. Well, your god of lightning is weaker than my god of both lightning AND thunder. Well, your god of lightning and thunder is weaker than my god of the sky in general, and so on and so on until gods are all-powerful. In addition, in order to keep new humans in line, they're told stories that prey on their fear (like hell) so that they fall in line early in life, which is the key to a lifetime of slavery in belief.

The vast majority of those who are religious in the world belong to the specific religion that they belong to based solely on where they were born. If you were born in the US, you'll most likely be Christian. If you were born in India, you would be Hindu. If you were born in the middle east, you'll likely be Muslim. Each one claims to be the one true religion, hilariously. Well, each one of these religions agree with my point of view 99% of the time because they reject every other god in the history of man. I simply go one god farther.

I have seen crazy things but I know that the human mind is prone to hallucination and I know it has evolved to see patterns where there are none (valuable for survival).

I have not seen credible evidence for the supernatural so I reject anyone's claim when they come screaming YOU'RE GOING TO HELL IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT JESUS'S FORGIVENESS! The people who believe this stuff are basically advertising that they do not deserve my respect, but they can earn it back by engaging me in debate on the matter. Whether they are capable of breaking free of their religious blinders is up to them.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
Ah yes. The God allows bad things to happen so you can learn trope. That is why god allows men to gang rape 3 year old children until they are dead. Those children needed to learn the valuable lesson that being gang raped until death is not something you want to experience.
I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks that bad things happen so we can learn from them has not seen the depths of depravity that this world is capable of.

God works in mysterious ways, bro.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
In the context of my post, "cause" and "God" are the same thing. Even now, people with vast scientific knowledge still believe in a personal creator. The answer is still good enough. We're just understanding the details of His creation.
And that is fine as long as we remember that the details matter and we that we can't rely on old explanations but have to strive to better understanding.


What was the purpose of religion? I don't understand what you mean.
'God did it' was a cautionary tale. When you see lighting don't go out because god might notice you. In many ways it is still used that way, but it has changed context to be more social hazards instead of physical ones. Don't have sex because god might notice and punish you.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
And that is fine as long as we remember that the details matter and we that we can't rely on old explanations but have to strive to better understanding.

I agree. But that's why I don't think invoking "God" hinders learning because details are still present and need to be understood. To me, a mechanic saying "a dog built this engine" doesn't mean its time to stop learning how it works.

We still strive to understand those details.


'God did it' was a cautionary tale. When you see lighting don't go out because god might notice you. In many ways it is still used that way, but it has changed context to be more social hazards instead of physical ones. Don't have sex because god might notice and punish you.

I understand what you're saying now, but I don't believe this has anything to do with "why" we have religion.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
I agree. But that's why I don't think invoking "God" hinders learning because details are still present and need to be understood. To me, a mechanic saying "a dog built this engine" doesn't mean its time to stop learning how it works.

We still strive to understand those details.

What details? Details include evidence. Facts. There are ZERO details that suggest that god exists, other than a human's imagination. If you'd like to discuss the God of the Gaps Argument or the Argument from Complexity, let's do it.

I understand what you're saying now, but I don't believe this has anything to do with "why" we have religion.

Read my post.

Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
You seem to be making a case for the Sun to be god.

In the countless discussions I've had with religious people, I have seen all kinds of assertions of the nature and existence of god. One in particular claimed that the ability to choose, the concept of choice itself, is god. Stars are literally the cause of the spark of life and the fuel to continue it. Some people leave it at the literal understanding while others take on a more anthropomorphic projection-like approach.

Without an willingness to accept that one is wrong and correct beliefs when new evidence is introduced, humans will conjure all kinds of descriptions and excuses for their supernatural crutch. It's truly astonishing.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
You seem to be making a case for the Sun to be god.

Actually, I don't think I was...I was merely pointing out that in a search for God, we just made our own.

Human history is filled with it. That's why I mentioned, what I deemed to be, circumstantial evidence.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
Actually, I don't think I was...I was merely pointing out that in a search for God, we just made our own.

Agreed. Now, why don't you apply it to your own religion? What makes you think that your religion is any different than all the other made-up religions?

Human history is filled with it. That's why I mentioned, what I deemed to be, circumstantial evidence.

What circumstantial evidence? Circumstantial evidence is better than no evidence at all, which is where you get with religion.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,601
29,313
136
Actually, I don't think I was...I was merely pointing out that in a search for God, we just made our own.

Human history is filled with it. That's why I mentioned, what I deemed to be, circumstantial evidence.
We also make poop. Maybe poop is God?
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Ah yes. The God allows bad things to happen so you can learn trope. That is why god allows men to gang rape 3 year old children until they are dead. Those children needed to learn the valuable lesson that being gang raped until death is not something you want to experience.
I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks that bad things happen so we can learn from them has not seen the depths of depravity that this world is capable of.

God doesn't restrict free will. You are free to gang rape a 3 year old until they are dead. That's entirely up to the person. To love someone you need to give them freedom. Otherwise to restrict them would be there is a selfish desire. God isn't selfish at all as he is perfect love. Which means he cannot restrict anything.

"God allows bad things to happen" Yes. Constantly.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
God doesn't restrict free will. You are free to gang rape a 3 year old until they are dead. That's entirely up to the person. To love someone you need to give them freedom. Otherwise to restrict them would be there is a selfish desire. God isn't selfish at all as he is perfect love. Which means he cannot restrict anything.

"God allows bad things to happen" Yes. Constantly.

This explanation is nothing like the "Look at him as the father" argument. A father would let a child fall off the bike, but not while on a busy freeway.

If you believe in absolute freewill then god must not interfere at all. He created the universe and then became (at some point) a completely passive observer. This is Deism.
 
Last edited:

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
I'm a fence-sitting agnostic so I accept the possibility of some kind of creator for mankind or even this particular universe.

But I've yet to see anything beyond faith to support the truth of any particular religion, and I certainly would not bow to a creator that torments you eternally for eating bacon. Mmmm, bacon
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |