Ze First Debate

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,098
51,668
136
It's easier to understand if you stop thinking of it as a trick, and just realize his supporters just agree with him. They want suffering (of someone else), they want less people (of those who don't look like them), they want more of what everyone else has. They're envious, sad little balls of hatred, each and every one.
Yes, I think a big part of this is that those people always held these shitty opinions but they knew society wouldn't stand for it. Now Trump has given them permission to be the worst selves they always wanted to be.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,325
136
It's a bit telling they complain that Harris comes across as unauthentic, when she was sharing a stage with one of the most prolific, yet awful liars to grace the world stage.

But this one:
“It will take Trump losing decisively to reform the GOP, and I will be back when that happens.”
She's got more faith in the GOP than I do. I'd love to see it happen myself, and I hope it does. It'd be nice for this to be the time when their pendulum finally swings back.
Their pendulum broke the fuck off when Obama got elected. It aint ever swinging back. The party needs to die and then Dems can split into progressives and centrists. Then the money can start the process of turning centrists back into regressives.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,395
11,005
136
So why never, ever any consequences for him???

How did he ever discover the Anti-Life equation that humanity has been searching for for an eternity. It boggles my mind that he was able to use this on over half of the country. Maybe even the world.
Real Estate is full of these scammers. None of them get consequences, most are smart enough to stay in the shadows.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
No. You don't get to claim what Democrats will or will not do without evidence. Until Democrats are given a full filibuster-proof supermajority for at least one full term, what you claim they will do or not do is just you projecting your bullshit onto them.
I will address that in another post late, but before I do so I would like to go over your last charges I answered by got no feedback on:

You said, "The ownership angle and the ambulances over cancer research are false dilemmas. Do you know what that means? Make sure you understand it so you don't do it again."

I explained that if you had not stated you were talking about a specific piece of legislation but using ambulances as a specific complaint against the current system that pointing out your anger at the system as is would be irrational and arrogant based on what you would need to know to find a balanced and deeply thought out fix. You never told me if you had earlier made it clear to me you were talking about M4A as opposed to my assumption you were beefing about things as they are. Had I known you were referring to M4A I would not have gone on about an example you used to attack as I had assumed, the things as they are today. My only point was to say it's stupid to be in a rage about a situation that is over the fact that you have opinions on how to fix it. Your opinions are fine with me. Your anger, however, isn't good for your health and you won't do anything about it so long as you make the illogical claim it is justified. You can get things done with anger but you can have the same goals with or without.

dank69: They are false dilemmas because M4A is projected to cost something like $32T. Big number right? Except we currently spend $49T for much worse outcomes. In other words we get better ambulances (for every person who needs one) and better cancer research and it still costs less than we already pay.

Did you say you were talking about M4A earlier so there would have been no point to talking about the example you used? I didn't see it but I do not know?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
No. You don't get to claim what Democrats will or will not do without evidence. Until Democrats are given a full filibuster-proof supermajority for at least one full term, what you claim they will do or not do is just you projecting your bullshit onto them.

Their pendulum broke the fuck off when Obama got elected. It aint ever swinging back. The party needs to die and then Dems can split into progressives and centrists. Then the money can start the process of turning centrists back into regressives.
I am glad to see that you can predict the future based on a broken pendulum, especially since it is the pendulum that can bring a measure of certainty. My statement that Democrats will not take serious action against money in politics without a revolution is admittedly based on the airy fairy evidence of the influence of money on the the three branches of government over my lifetime. It is, of course, entirely possible I'm hallucinating. Unfortunately it will take more than a super-majority to create a population that will vote in its best interest since people neither know who they are or what they really want.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
It's a bit telling they complain that Harris comes across as unauthentic, when she was sharing a stage with one of the most prolific, yet awful liars to grace the world stage.

But this one:
“It will take Trump losing decisively to reform the GOP, and I will be back when that happens.”
She's got more faith in the GOP than I do. I'd love to see it happen myself, and I hope it does. It'd be nice for this to be the time when their pendulum finally swings back.
As long as we create what we fear in our sleep, it will swing back. Its a law as intuitive as mathematics.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
Some of us are still trying to help
I love you for that. I feel the value of a man can be seen in his aim. I think often of a Buddhist prayer, I vow to save all sentient beings. Kind of the opposite of the I me me mine of self hate.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
Yes, I think a big part of this is that those people always held these shitty opinions but they knew society wouldn't stand for it. Now Trump has given them permission to be the worst selves they always wanted to be.
I would only change that a bit. He has given his supporter an excuse to be who they are as well as an excuse for his opposition to stoop to his level of smearing and blaming. He evokes hate and it’s prevalence is the source of his success. We are all looking for someone to blame, except for ourselves.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,325
136
I will address that in another post late, but before I do so I would like to go over your last charges I answered by got no feedback on:

You said, "The ownership angle and the ambulances over cancer research are false dilemmas. Do you know what that means? Make sure you understand it so you don't do it again."

I explained that if you had not stated you were talking about a specific piece of legislation but using ambulances as a specific complaint against the current system that pointing out your anger at the system as is would be irrational and arrogant based on what you would need to know to find a balanced and deeply thought out fix. You never told me if you had earlier made it clear to me you were talking about M4A as opposed to my assumption you were beefing about things as they are. Had I known you were referring to M4A I would not have gone on about an example you used to attack as I had assumed, the things as they are today. My only point was to say it's stupid to be in a rage about a situation that is over the fact that you have opinions on how to fix it. Your opinions are fine with me. Your anger, however, isn't good for your health and you won't do anything about it so long as you make the illogical claim it is justified. You can get things done with anger but you can have the same goals with or without.

dank69: They are false dilemmas because M4A is projected to cost something like $32T. Big number right? Except we currently spend $49T for much worse outcomes. In other words we get better ambulances (for every person who needs one) and better cancer research and it still costs less than we already pay.

Did you say you were talking about M4A earlier so there would have been no point to talking about the example you used? I didn't see it but I do not know?
I did not state anything about M4A prior to that post. I mentioned ambulances because it is a really simple way to point out the absurdity of our healthcare system in this country.
Every person that votes Republican is complicit in making this reality possible. There are a million other shit policies that Republicans support, but for me the only one that triggers the anger you see in me here is our healthcare system. If I had just said I wanted M4A or something similar it wouldn't have meant anything in this conversation because it is too abstract. The deeper someone digs into the details the more the rational person's fury grows.

Republicans live their lives in a way that the world gets slightly better for everyone else every time one of them dies. To be clear before anyone gets the wrong idea, that does not mean I think they should die or that they should be killed. They are 100% within their rights to be shitty people even though their "preferred policies" kill thousands of people every year and promote the suffering of countless others. They might as well go around randomly shooting people at whatever rate people are currently dying in this country due to lack of access to sufficient healthcare. The results would be the exact same but at least then we could lock them up for being the danger to society that they currently are.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,903
5,058
136
I would only change that a bit. He has given his supporter an excuse to be who they are as well as an excuse for his opposition to stoop to his level of smearing and blaming. He evokes hate and it’s prevalence is the source of his success. We are all looking for someone to blame, except for ourselves.
Exactly. He made it acceptable for these repugnicans to come out from under their bridge. But unfortunately it’s going to take a generation to get rid of this hate
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
I did not state anything about M4A prior to that post. I mentioned ambulances because it is a really simple way to point out the absurdity of our healthcare system in this country.
Every person that votes Republican is complicit in making this reality possible. There are a million other shit policies that Republicans support, but for me the only one that triggers the anger you see in me here is our healthcare system. If I had just said I wanted M4A or something similar it wouldn't have meant anything in this conversation because it is too abstract. The deeper someone digs into the details the more the rational person's fury grows.

Republicans live their lives in a way that the world gets slightly better for everyone else every time one of them dies. To be clear before anyone gets the wrong idea, that does not mean I think they should die or that they should be killed. They are 100% within their rights to be shitty people even though their "preferred policies" kill thousands of people every year and promote the suffering of countless others. They might as well go around randomly shooting people at whatever rate people are currently dying in this country due to lack of access to sufficient healthcare. The results would be the exact same but at least then we could lock them up for being the danger to society that they currently are.
I agree with everything you say but how you are affected by those facts. What people call evil is only the belief that evil exists turned inward because we react to evil with hate, in my opinion. This is a catch 22. It is the equivalent of curing insanity by doing more of it.

You learned to hate by physical and mental exposure to being hated under the pretext that you and not your acts were what wloul be punished if expressed. What we call civilization is the methodologies by which we keep hatred suppressed which is the same thing as MAD, MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION. We treat the damage done by the mental illness we create via our hatred by calling for greater punishment. But our contempt for so called evil people reinforces their self contempt and their will to get even.

This is insanity. And the cure is rather unpleasant. There is only one thing you can do is there not? If there is a person who you can fix, who is it? What person can end the cycle of blame. Who can you put on the cross and bring an end to this insane transfer of hate from one to another?

I put that out as something to consider. I do so because I think that our aim should be to find out how to heal ourselves. Will you seek a cure if you do not even know one exists? Will you resist if the evidence points to yes?
 
Last edited:

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,512
11,146
136
Real Estate is full of these scammers. None of them get consequences, most are smart enough to stay in the shadows.
Shadiest bunch of businessman that exist in my book. And they've got all these wonderful laws to protect them, because real estate is risky and they need every hand out they can get. Unrealized gains my ass.
These people are buying up everything and renting it back to you.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,325
136
I agree with everything you say but how you are affected by those facts. What people call evil is only the belief that evil exists turned inward because we react to evil with hate, in my opinion. This is a catch 22. It is the equivalent of curing insanity by doing more of it.

You learned to hate by physical and mental exposure to being hated under the pretext that you and not your acts were what wloul be punished if expressed. What we call civilization is the methodologies by which we keep hatred suppressed which is the same thing as MAD, MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION. We treat the damage done by the mental illness we create via our hatred by calling for greater punishment. But our contempt for so called evil people reinforces their self contempt and their will to get even.

This is insanity. And the cure is rather unpleasant. There is only one thing you can do is there not? If there is a person who you can fix, who is it? What person can end the cycle of blame. Who can you put on the cross and bring an end to this insane transfer of hate from one to another?

I put that out as something to consider. I do so because I think that our aim should be to find out how to heal ourselves. Will you seek a cure if you do not even know one exists? Will you resist if the evidence points to yes?
I can't fix anyone. Best I can do is show them evidence that they're killing people. What they choose to do with that information is out of my hands.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,595
6,442
126
I can't fix anyone. Best I can do is show them evidence that they're killing people. What they choose to do with that information is out of my hands.
I guess I should have been more specific. Would the one person in the world there might be hope of you fixing possibly be yourself? Would you go there if that possibility had never been considered? Would you undertake such an effort if you had been conditioned to unconsciously feel you are hopeless? What I am saying is that in my opinion the work of keeping people from killing others is to end the conditioning that drives us to harm ourselves. Can you step off the Wheel of Karma as it were, and just be alive.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,089
29,424
136

RFK Jr. says he’d eat ‘virtually anything’ — but not a dog or a human​


So if we apply the GOP filter now that he’s defected, one could assume his diet consists primarily of dogs and humans

Why Is Trump So Obsessed With Hannibal Lecter?: A Complete Timeline​


Oh no…
So cats are on the table
 
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