Ze First Debate

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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,787
2,741
136
Did you miss the point that fire crews far out number EMS crews? Fires crews will be "available" (not on a call) to respond at a higher availability rate, and often miles closer to the patient.

A typical EMS crew, from arrival at patient, to the point they are back in service, in their coverage area, is about 2 hours, which includes drive to hospital, patient handoff at hospital, and cleaning the unit to put it back in service, then travel time back to their coverage area. That time can be much longer, if the hospital jammed up or understaffed, or just distance.

Fire crews stay in their service area, and can immediately respond to whatever comes next.
Hilarious when you quoted me saying:

Your point about quantity of available personnel is a fair one, and if that's the main reason a FD crew is often sent out for a medical emergency, that's fine.

Anyway, I appreciate your explanation and I'll leave it at that.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,348
8,660
136
The FD could also have smaller, rapid response vehicles, where they only need to send out 2 people, if an ambulance is a little further off. Cheaper than rolling a whole truck, and less wear and tear on local roads.
I saw one of those today, a red FD truck labeled paramedic.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,348
8,660
136
Trump is still crying about his debate loss. I wonder what else will happen this week???
Said losing fighters demand a rematch. Well, to flesh out the metaphor, his opponent is anything but gracious if he denies it. So, Trump is either a winner with no grace or a chickenshit loser pretending to have won, which is the truth of it, of course. Kamala pulled off the greatest victory in any POTUS campaign ever, AFAIK (and she'd like a follow up debate to finish him off). But this country is so fucked up, it's still uncertain she will win. Strange times.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,938
8,144
136
The FD could also have smaller, rapid response vehicles, where they only need to send out 2 people, if an ambulance is a little further off. Cheaper than rolling a whole truck, and less wear and tear on local roads.
On the surface, that sounds accurate, but it is not. The fire trucks are not replaced with the SUV, so departments have to now buy and equip fire trucks and SUVs for every station, and now the dilemma of either staffing both, or take an engine/ladder out of service because part of the crew is running with the SUV.

The SUV, vs fire truck. An SUV equipped with all the emergency and medical equipment is going to be $100K - $150K and up, and needs to be replaced about every 5 years.
A firetruck is $500K and up, and will be replaced every 20 years (that code). The SUV does not negate the need for the fire truck, nor does it save it from being replaced in 20 years (remember that code), so $400K for 20 years of SUVs saves how much fuel in the bigger trucks?

Staffing, either have "first responder only staff, at the fire house" otherwise a firetruck is now out of service while they ride around in the SUV. Remember minutes matter when saving a life, and fighting a fire or other situation that would necessitate an engine company response, i.e. such as extrication from a wreck,
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,938
8,144
136
Said losing fighters demand a rematch. Well, to flesh out the metaphor, his opponent is anything but gracious if he denies it. So, Trump is either a winner with no grace or a chickenshit loser pretending to have won, which is the truth of it, of course. Kamala pulled off the greatest victory in any POTUS campaign ever, AFAIK (and she'd like a follow up debate to finish him off). But this country is so fucked up, it's still uncertain she will win. Strange times.
Trump was demanding a second debate with Biden back in June, but now saying only the loser wants a rematch.
 
Reactions: Pohemi
Dec 10, 2005
25,004
8,272
136
On the surface, that sounds accurate, but it is not. The fire trucks are not replaced with the SUV, so departments have to now buy and equip fire trucks and SUVs for every station, and now the dilemma of either staffing both, or take an engine/ladder out of service because part of the crew is running with the SUV.
I would hazard a guess that there are good number departments are actually over-equipped on trucks. I know this is likely still true on Long Island, even after Newsday's expose on LI Fire Districts in the early 2000s (and nothing changed as a result). And in places like MA, where there are a billion municipal governments with their own fire departments which have too much coverage for their own borders (and then couple that with the whole area being a continuous urban/suburban region).

They could consider dropping spending on a truck given the overabundance of calls being medical in nature.

Maybe in areas that are more sparsely populated, this wouldn't work. But most people live in relatively built-up suburban and urban areas.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,348
8,660
136
Trump, Nazis, and Russians all circle the same drain.
Donald Trump is a blight on the nation.


The rumor about pet eating, according to Newsweek:

Erika Lee, a woman from Springfield, Ohio, who initially made a Facebook post alleging that local Haitian immigrants were "eating pets," leading to significant national attention on the small city, has confessed she had no direct evidence supporting such a claim.

Amid the 2024 presidential election where immigration is a hot topic issue, city officials have consistently debunked these rumors, but the claims gained even more prominence when former President Donald Trump, the GOP presidential nominee, repeated them during the televised presidential debate on Tuesday night.

"In Springfield, they're eating the dogs—the people that came in," Trump claimed about Haitian immigrants. "They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame."

While Springfield officials and community leaders have sought to dispel these claims, tensions have run high and bomb threats were made on Thursday and Friday, leading to the closures of schools and municipal buildings.

"It just exploded into something I didn't mean to happen," Lee told NBC News on Friday.


Lee said the incident has left her ridden with guilt and anxiety due to the controversy it generated. Her post detailed the disappearance of a neighbor's cat and included her neighbor's suspicions that their Haitian residents were involved in the incident.

According to NewsGuard, an organization dedicated to combating internet misinformation, Lee was one of the first to spread the baseless rumor on social media, the screenshots of which were widely shared. The neighbor, identified as Kimberly Newton, reportedly got the information about the alleged incident from a third party, as per NewsGuard's findings and reported by NBC News.

Lee told NBC News that she never imagined her post would become part of the national conversation, while also spreading conspiracy theories and hate.

"I'm not a racist," she said, adding that her daughter is half Black and she herself is mixed race and a member of the LGBTQ+ community. "Everybody seems to be turning it into that, and that was not my intent."
 
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gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,292
1,832
136
Donald Trump is a blight on the nation.


The rumor about pet eating, according to Newsweek:

Erika Lee, a woman from Springfield, Ohio, who initially made a Facebook post alleging that local Haitian immigrants were "eating pets," leading to significant national attention on the small city, has confessed she had no direct evidence supporting such a claim.

Amid the 2024 presidential election where immigration is a hot topic issue, city officials have consistently debunked these rumors, but the claims gained even more prominence when former President Donald Trump, the GOP presidential nominee, repeated them during the televised presidential debate on Tuesday night.

"In Springfield, they're eating the dogs—the people that came in," Trump claimed about Haitian immigrants. "They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame."

While Springfield officials and community leaders have sought to dispel these claims, tensions have run high and bomb threats were made on Thursday and Friday, leading to the closures of schools and municipal buildings.

"It just exploded into something I didn't mean to happen," Lee told NBC News on Friday.


Lee said the incident has left her ridden with guilt and anxiety due to the controversy it generated. Her post detailed the disappearance of a neighbor's cat and included her neighbor's suspicions that their Haitian residents were involved in the incident.

According to NewsGuard, an organization dedicated to combating internet misinformation, Lee was one of the first to spread the baseless rumor on social media, the screenshots of which were widely shared. The neighbor, identified as Kimberly Newton, reportedly got the information about the alleged incident from a third party, as per NewsGuard's findings and reported by NBC News.

Lee told NBC News that she never imagined her post would become part of the national conversation, while also spreading conspiracy theories and hate.

"I'm not a racist," she said, adding that her daughter is half Black and she herself is mixed race and a member of the LGBTQ+ community. "Everybody seems to be turning it into that, and that was not my intent."

The internet was a mistake.

Worse than Skynet.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,423
12,952
146
"It just exploded into something I didn't mean to happen," Lee told NBC News on Friday.

Lee said the incident has left her ridden with guilt and anxiety due to the controversy it generated. Her post detailed the disappearance of a neighbor's cat and included her neighbor's suspicions that their Haitian residents were involved in the incident.

According to NewsGuard, an organization dedicated to combating internet misinformation, Lee was one of the first to spread the baseless rumor on social media, the screenshots of which were widely shared.

Good, the dummy should feel guilty.

"I didn't know my shit-headed, racist post would go viral, I swear!"

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,089
12,414
136
Forum moderators blocked me for no reason.

You simply cannot, yet again, comment on moderate actions in open forum. This is not your first or second or third time doing so. You have now accumulated enough points to trigger an automatic one month vacation. That may be extended. Additionally, going forward, you are banned from posting in P&N, as posting in this forum has been the root cause of causing you to recklessly throw away years of being a good contributor on the tech forums.

When you return, should you call us out again in open forum OR post anything here in defiance of your P&N ban, we will be forced to permaban you from ATF. I personally hope it doesn't come to that.

Perknose
Forum Moderator
Oh snap!
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,938
8,144
136
I would hazard a guess that there are good number departments are actually over-equipped on trucks. I know this is likely still true on Long Island, even after Newsday's expose on LI Fire Districts in the early 2000s (and nothing changed as a result). And in places like MA, where there are a billion municipal governments with their own fire departments which have too much coverage for their own borders (and then couple that with the whole area being a continuous urban/suburban region).

They could consider dropping spending on a truck given the overabundance of calls being medical in nature.

Maybe in areas that are more sparsely populated, this wouldn't work. But most people live in relatively built-up suburban and urban areas.
I can only speak for NC, as I was involved in obtaining a better ISO rating for the department I belonged to. The number of trucks in service, and their type, along with staffing and training, play a major part of the fire department's ISO rating. The better that rating, the better for the community, as it saves homeowners, business, and industry significant money on their fire insurance.

Departments typically keep older trucks in reserve if a front line truck needs to be taken out of service for any reason.

Having specialty trucks, ladders, aerials, heavy rescue, etc. also factor into the rating, and contribute to the end goal, saving lives and property.
 
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