Zeitgeist, The Movie 2007

[randay]

Really interesting stuff, I dont see the point of it all though, even if it is all true, what am I supposed to do about it? My life is really not that bad and I'd rather keep dancing to the same tune then try and do something about it in vain.

 

[jpeyton]

US war for profit isn't news. Anybody who has opened a newspaper in the last 5 years knows this.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Looks like the official response is on:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...pr_wh/us_terror_threat

 

[Appledrop]

Originally posted by: randay
Really interesting stuff, I dont see the point of it all though, even if it is all true, what am I supposed to do about it? My life is really not that bad and I'd rather keep dancing to the same tune then try and do something about it in vain.

true. and i guess the reason people condition themselves to the lies even if they are totally illogical, it is much more convenient for them in their comfortable little lives that everything is as the government says.. (for me too obviously, but I like to know the truth at least)

Anyway, Excellent movie (sans intro). Really, anyone screaming nonsense about "tin foil hats" over 911 "conspiracies" even after watching this video - there is no hope for you... You probably know you are lying to yourself anyways

 

[jpeyton]

Holy crap, start watching at 1:41:50. :shocked:

 

[intogamer]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Holy crap, start watching at 1:41:50. :shocked:

I'm getting there :roll:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: QuaziK
Anyway, Excellent movie (sans intro). Really, anyone screaming nonsense about "tin foil hats" over 911 "conspiracies" even after watching this video - there is no hope for you... You probably know you are lying to yourself anyways

Actually, the funny thing is, they actually believe their government. Sad, huh?

Four years into the war, a large double-digit percentage of the US population still thinks Saddam/9-11/al-Qaeda are connected, so you have to figure some of those idiots have an account on AT.

 

[SSSnail]

marked

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

The movie postulates that thermite, which most definitely burns hot enough to melt steel, was used to cut the supports. Then they show you a picture of a steel beam, surrounded by rubble, with a precisely angled cut and covered in melted steel. The caption of the picture reads "World Trade Center support beam" or some such.
?

The thing is that thermite is not used to take down buildings. The conspiracy theorists are really clinging to the thermite idea, but buildings are taken down with charges that cut the metal, not thermite.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: QuaziK
Anyway, Excellent movie (sans intro). Really, anyone screaming nonsense about "tin foil hats" over 911 "conspiracies" even after watching this video - there is no hope for you... You probably know you are lying to yourself anyways

Actually, the funny thing is, they actually believe their government. Sad, huh?

Four years into the war, a large double-digit percentage of the US population still thinks Saddam/9-11/al-Qaeda are connected, so you have to figure some of those idiots have an account on AT.

I don't believe our government either, but I'm not gullible enough to believe in these wacky theories.

Look at this administration and their ineptitude. They can't manage a hurricane. They can't manage a war. They can't manage information leaks in their own administration. Yet you think they'd be able to pull off one of the most wildly elaborate conspiracies ever, which requires the involvement of enemies and allies alike? That's just ridiculous.

 

[Appledrop]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: QuaziK
Anyway, Excellent movie (sans intro). Really, anyone screaming nonsense about "tin foil hats" over 911 "conspiracies" even after watching this video - there is no hope for you... You probably know you are lying to yourself anyways

Actually, the funny thing is, they actually believe their government. Sad, huh?

Four years into the war, a large double-digit percentage of the US population still thinks Saddam/9-11/al-Qaeda are connected, so you have to figure some of those idiots have an account on AT.

I don't believe our government either, but I'm not gullible enough to believe in these wacky theories.

oh the irony. Guys set aside 2 hours and watch this vid

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

I don't believe our government either, but I'm not gullible enough to believe in these wacky theories.

Look at this administration and their ineptitude. They can't manage a hurricane. They can't manage a war. They can't manage information leaks in their own administration. Yet you think they'd be able to pull off one of the most wildly elaborate conspiracies ever, which requires the involvement of enemies and allies alike? That's just ridiculous.

1.) AFAIK there is no managing of a hurricane. It happens...you pick up the pieces afterwards. The blame game over hurricane Katrina is ridiculous. It's always been the people who are responsible for picking themselves up after such disasters, and they always have. New Orleans and other affected areas will recover when they want to, not when the government makes them.

2.) This isn't really a war, it's a non-war on the same level as Korea and Vietnam, both of which were disastrous failures. We did quite well in the popular wars, but these military exercises with live bullets and crippling rules of engagement are designed to fail. Furthermore they're designed to be drawn out as long as possible. Watch the movie.

3.) The span of the theory presented in the movie by far exceeds the life of the current administration. This is a grand conspiracy theory in every sense of the word. It reaches all the way back to the creation of the Fed and spans every administration since. In short, the Bush administration apparently didn't singlehandedly pull this off. Things like 911 have been going on throughout history.

I'm not saying that I believe any of this, but you are consistently not addressing the salient points with your arguments. Watch the movie and tear it apart piece by piece if you are able, but simple stubborn disbelief on one side of an argument has never convinced anyone on the other side.

 

[DangerAardvark]

I love how the conspiracy theorists try to paint the skeptics as the irrational ones. Next thing you know religion will be claiming to be under siege and white people will be grumbling about racism.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

I'm not saying that I believe any of this, but you are consistently not addressing the salient points with your arguments. Watch the movie and tear it apart piece by piece if you are able, but simple stubborn disbelief on one side of an argument has never convinced anyone on the other side.

I am not going to waste my time looking at every stupid conspiracy theory video that comes out. I don't need to watch the same crap rehashed over and over again.

The entire 9/11 conspiracy nonsense goes against all common sense. It's one of those things that you either have or you don't. I notice that a lot of people with no common sense often fall for things which are obvious to me, such as internet scams, multilevel marketing schemes, etc. They all claim that I'm being "closed minded", but I can see that they're just being gullible.

You're defending the conspiracy theories but you don't seem willing to risk your neck and claim that you believe it, so I'm going to ask you directly- Do you think that the government took down the buildings with explosives?

 

[intogamer]

Anybody got any more info about not paying Income Tax?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
You're defending the conspiracy theories but you don't seem willing to risk your neck and claim that you believe it, so I'm going to ask you directly- Do you think that the government took down the buildings with explosives?

The concept is so fantastic that it boggles my mind. Our government being responsible for something like 911 is too much. I can't believe it. There are too many checks and balances in our system.

There is some niggling doubt, however. It's this same doubt that I rely on to keep me objective in most situations. If not for this doubt I would be quoting you enthusiastically throughout this thread. But my beliefs must stand up to the fire, which is why I look for their flaws rather than evidence that supports them.

The movie really is well made and intelligently structured. If you see it only as entertainment and skip a couple of Seinfield reruns to watch it then you probably will not be disappointed and you will not have wasted your time any more than usual.

 

[computeerrgghh]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee


It seems to have been made clear that burning jet fuel cannot melt steel at all. Is this true?

That is very misleading. That's what you get when you let a conspiracy theorist give you your engineering facts instead of an engineer.

They seem to be operating under the assumption that the steel would need to melt before the building would collapse, but that's not true. The steel loses its strength as it gets hotter, and eventually it would be too weak to support the weight. This would happen long before it melted.

I understand that bit, but testimony from firemen (who were presumably IN the WTCs after the crash) in the movie indicates that there were rivulets of molten steel all over the place. One guy describes it as being "like a foundry".

The movie postulates that thermite, which most definitely burns hot enough to melt steel, was used to cut the supports. Then they show you a picture of a steel beam, surrounded by rubble, with a precisely angled cut and covered in melted steel. The caption of the picture reads "World Trade Center support beam" or some such.

Of course I've never seen the WTC rubble with my own eyes. That could have been a picture of a real demolition with a falsified caption for all I know.

If it is a real picture then something was definitely melting steel in that building. If it wasn't jet fuel then what was it?

I don't buy the thermite explanation. First of all, that Physicist from BYU takes a sample and out of who knows how many tons of dust, he finds a statistically significant amount of aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur to declare that thermate was used. Secondly, take a look at the components of thermate - aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur. What are possible sources of aluminum? For starters, a 747 has ~150000 lbs of aluminum. And where can you find iron oxide? And sulfur? Again lots of possibilities, even "acid rain" could have contaminated the sample.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Narmer
I still don't understand how the Federal Reserve Banking system is privately owned. How is that so? Does anybody care to lay it out for me?

The Federal Reserve is a mixed institution.

Its run by a board of Governers appointed by the PoTUS.

However the 12 Federal Reserve banks are all owned by private banks in their respective regions.

As for the US/Federal Reserve making money off of war.

What else is new. The US is the worlds leading supplier of weapons. War is big business in the states. Its also a lot more profitable when the US stays out of war, just helps wage it by financing/supplying.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
I don't buy the thermite explanation. First of all, that Physicist from BYU takes a sample and out of who knows how many tons of dust, he finds a statistically significant amount of aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur to declare that thermate was used. Secondly, take a look at the components of thermate - aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur. What are possible sources of aluminum? For starters, a 747 has ~150000 lbs of aluminum. And where can you find iron oxide? And sulfur? Again lots of possibilities, even "acid rain" could have contaminated the sample.

How many samples have you taken from Ground Zero? Years you've studied physics?

 

[Jinru]

Part 3 blew me away. I was stunned when I got to the part where Bush signed the North American Union and the conversation between Aaron Russo and Nickolas Rockefeller.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Narmer
I still don't understand how the Federal Reserve Banking system is privately owned. How is that so? Does anybody care to lay it out for me?

The Federal Reserve is a mixed institution.

Its run by a board of Governers appointed by the PoTUS.

However the 12 Federal Reserve banks are all owned by private banks in their respective regions.

As for the US/Federal Reserve making money off of war.

What else is new. The US is the worlds leading supplier of weapons. War is big business in the states. Its also a lot more profitable when the US stays out of war, just helps wage it by financing/supplying.

I am shocked by that. How can that be? Any more info on it? Links? Does that mean that these banks make far more money than they let on?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
I don't buy the thermite explanation. First of all, that Physicist from BYU takes a sample and out of who knows how many tons of dust, he finds a statistically significant amount of aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur to declare that thermate was used. Secondly, take a look at the components of thermate - aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur. What are possible sources of aluminum? For starters, a 747 has ~150000 lbs of aluminum. And where can you find iron oxide? And sulfur? Again lots of possibilities, even "acid rain" could have contaminated the sample.

Contamination of the samples is a valid argument against the usage of thermite. It is not a valid argument against the impossibly melted steel supports. The mechanism by which that support was cut is irrelevant.

My question is whether the photograph in the movie is an actual picture of the WTC rubble. If it is real, what is the explanation for it?

 

[computeerrgghh]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
I don't buy the thermite explanation. First of all, that Physicist from BYU takes a sample and out of who knows how many tons of dust, he finds a statistically significant amount of aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur to declare that thermate was used. Secondly, take a look at the components of thermate - aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur. What are possible sources of aluminum? For starters, a 747 has ~150000 lbs of aluminum. And where can you find iron oxide? And sulfur? Again lots of possibilities, even "acid rain" could have contaminated the sample.

How many samples have you taken from Ground Zero? Years you've studied physics?

Care to explain the correlation between studying physics, specifically Muon catalyzed cold fusion, and being an authority on thermate and controlled demolition?

I went and looked at a presentation he gave about the results he got from the sample he took. The sample was about the size of a penny. Obviously you can make overlying scientific conclusions on what happened to a building the size of the WTC based upon a sample that large.

edit:

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
I don't buy the thermite explanation. First of all, that Physicist from BYU takes a sample and out of who knows how many tons of dust, he finds a statistically significant amount of aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur to declare that thermate was used. Secondly, take a look at the components of thermate - aluminum, iron oxide and sulfur. What are possible sources of aluminum? For starters, a 747 has ~150000 lbs of aluminum. And where can you find iron oxide? And sulfur? Again lots of possibilities, even "acid rain" could have contaminated the sample.

Contamination of the samples is a valid argument against the usage of thermite. It is not a valid argument against the impossibly melted steel supports. The mechanism by which that support was cut is irrelevant.

My question is whether the photograph in the movie is an actual picture of the WTC rubble. If it is real, what is the explanation for it?

I can not vouch for the validity of this website (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.co...thermitethermateclaims) but it has some more pictures of angled cuts and claims

Had these CTs taken a minute to enlarge the photo, as I have done below, they would have seen that the column shows obvious blowtorch marks, and slag sitting on top of the loose debris. Ironworkers used oxyacetylene torches to cut the WTC steel. Similar cuts are seen in many Ground Zero photos.

Again, I can not vouch for the validity of this website or the pictures it has posted.

 

[SSSnail]

Alright, so I see your pancake theory and raise you a few questions. I have the video of that entire day showing the collapse and I've watched and watched this from many angles, and many times.

How much weight was put on the floors to cause it pancake? Because for the most part, I saw debris or rather pulverized concrete and steel falling in every directions. If the floors pancake that easily with not much weight on it, then I wonder how they put the damn thing up in the first place. Now, you can tell me gravity and acceleration and mass and all that crap, where's the mass? For the most part, it was debris.

On the second tower, the plane didn't strike the building at its center but rather at the very edge, but yet when it started to crumble, you can see that the center of gravity of the top building shifted to the center again which allows the whole thing to come down right on top of the whole mess. Care to explain the physics behind that? Nevermind the entire top half was shattered before it started falling.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: PKPunk
marked for later

Same here. Sounds interesting.

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm home sick today so I gave it a watch. Better cliffs:

1) Jesus = Horus (Egyptian sun god)

2) The US Central Bank is essentially the same institution that caused the American Revolution, and is now trying to take over the world. They're also responsible for bringing the US into all major wars by staging events to trigger US outrage. The bank makes huge $$$ from wars funds.

3) 9/11 was part of the plan from #2.

4) Eventually, all people will be tagged and tracked with chips. Passports already do this, and experimental chip tracking is taking place (they have CNN and Good Morning America coverage of this).

1984. The Party lives.

1984 was meant to be a warning to the future of the dangers of fascism. It seems that a few people see 1984 as a guide book to their idea of a utopian society.