Zen 2 based Raven Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge

[raghu78]

I think Zen 2 is pretty much going to drive AMD's 2018 product roadmap all the way from CPUs to APUs. I have been looking back at how the Bulldozer CPU core launched back in 2011 and its progression to Piledriver.

Oct 2011 - Bulldozer CPU FX-8150
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested

May 2012- Piledriver notebook APU A10-4600M.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5831/amd-trinity-review-a10-4600m-a-new-hope

Oct 2012 - Piledriver desktop APU A10-5800k
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6347/amd-a10-5800k-a8-5600k-review-trinity-on-the-desktop-part-2

Oct 2012 - Piledriver CPU FX-8350
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6396/the-vishera-review-amd-fx8350-fx8320-fx6300-and-fx4300-tested

We know that Zen taped out sometime in Q3 2015 and first samples were received in Q4 2015.

https://www.globalfoundries.com/new...logy-success-for-next-generation-amd-products

Santa Clara, Calif., November 5, 2015 -- GLOBALFOUNDRIES today announced it has demonstrated silicon success on the first AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) products using GF’s most advanced 14nm FinFET process technology. As a result of this milestone, GF’s silicon-proven technology is planned to be integrated into multiple AMD products that address the growing need for high-performance, power-efficient compute and graphics technologies across a broad set of applications, from personal computers to data centers to immersive computing devices.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/396...-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

"The Zen silicon running in our bring-up labs is meeting our expectations, and priority customer sampling is on track to begin this quarter in advance of datacenter system availability in 2017."

I think its very likely that Zen 2 is ready and will be driving AMD's 2018 CPU/APUs. I think we are likely to see Raven Ridge for notebooks first in Q4 2017 followed by Raven Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge for desktops in Q1 2018.

 

[dark zero]

So.. Raven Ridge is Zen 2??? Now this is interesting. If AMD has more lucky events, they could go as fast as before.. is the comeback from them desired for the customers.

 

[Bouowmx]

AMD Zen 2 for Raven Ridge is great.

2018 looks like AMD Raven Ridge (4 Zen [2] cores + 704 Vega shaders) vs Intel Coffee Lake (6 Skylake/Kaby Lake cores + 192 generation 9.5 shaders).

 

[prtskg]

Pinnacle ridge being zen2 is reasonable but not raven ridge. Zen1 seems good enough to me for Raven. No ccx, updated foundry, I don't see why rd would need zen2.

 

[mikk]

Pinnacle Ridge isn't Zen 2, it's Zen 1.

 

[Sable]

I fail to see how any of that indicates Zen 2 will be 2018.

 

[raghu78]

Mark Papermaster has already confirmed the architectural improvements on a yearly basis.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3155...hitecture-is-expected-to-last-four-years.html

When asked how long Zen would last, compared to Intel’s two-year tick-tock cadence, Papermaster confirmed the four-year lifespan and tapped the table in front of him: “We’re not going tick-tock,” he said. “Zen is going to be tock, tock, tock.”

So if we combine Mark's statements along with how AMD has moved from a brand new core to its first iteration in the past (Bulldozer to Piledriver) its very likely that Zen 2 will drive Raven Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge. AMD moved from launch of Bulldozer (desktop FX CPU) to Piledriver (Trinity notebook APU) in under 8 months. This is possible because multiple generations of CPU cores based on a brand new microarchitecture are designed in parallel. Zen 2 design was finalized by the time Jim Keller left in Sep 2015.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...croprocessor-developer-jim-keller-leaves-amd/

“Architecture decisions are many years in advance of products,” explained the representative for AMD. “As you may remember, he was a primary architect on K8. We launched that product in 2003 and he had left AMD in 1999.”

The development of “Zen” (znver1) and “Zen+” (znver2) micro-architectures – which AMD has disclosed – has been completed a long time ago

Generally the first iteration of a brand new microarchitecture takes a lot more time from tapeout to actual production silicon as the team irons out various bugs in a new microarchitecture. We even heard of the SMT + uop cache bug present in early revisions of Zen which was ironed out in later revisions. Zen had a roughly 18 month time duration from tapeout to production silicon. In fact the production silicon was the fourth revision F4. Subsequent generations like Zen 2 are relatively easier to bring up as its not a brand new core and incremental improvements are much easier.

We will most probably hear at Computex from AMD about Raven Ridge. I would definitely expect AMD to demo Raven Ridge at Computex given that they intend to release the notebook version before end of 2017. So its a matter of a few months before we get more details on what CPU core Raven Ridge sports.

 

[mikk]

This is just a marketing speech for the public, you cannot count on it. The Roadmap clearly says Zen core, no Zen+ nor Zen 2. Also a Tock would mean they are going to 10nm or 7nm with Pinnacle Ridge which won't happen either next year.

 

[french toast]

This is just a marketing speech for the public, you cannot count on it. The Roadmap clearly says Zen core, no Zen+ nor Zen 2. Also a Tock would mean they are going to 10nm or 7nm with Pinnacle Ridge which won't happen either next year.

Do we know that is the official roadmap or just a mock up?
Raven ridge is zen1 ,pinnacle ridge is certainly zen 2.

 

[mikk]

Do we know that is the official roadmap or just a mock up?
Raven ridge is zen1 ,pinnacle ridge is certainly zen 2.

It looks legit. This roadmap looks way too boring for a fake.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Do we know that is the official roadmap or just a mock up?
Raven ridge is zen1 ,pinnacle ridge is certainly zen 2.

Nah. Here's a historical AMD roadmap for reference:

And here's another one:

Notice very clearly how when they plan a core change, they highlight it?

Pinnacle Ridge is Zen, IMHO. No other way to interpret that roadmap.

 

[Valantar]

Isn't Raven Ridge confirmed to launch in 2H 2017? If so, how does this add up with your proposed roadmap? Also, what does Zen fab ramping and samples have to do with the launch cadence of Bulldozer/Piledriver?

We have no reason to suspect Zen+ will arrive less than a year after Zen. Zen launched in March. Your assumption is that just because they at one point launched an APU with an upgraded arch 8 months after the base CPU, that's how it always will be. There's little reason to suspect this. Not to mention that that would put the Raven Ridge launch in November, which is a horrible time to launch a mobile chip - missing the school season sales by a mile, the Christmas sales too, and probably even new years sales (mobile chips never have hard launches).

 

[otinane]

and:

 

[mikk]

This statement from Papermaster is interesting by the way: Zen is going to be tock, tock, tock.

So he confirmes that the next update will be a tock, in case he is right and it's not a marketing speech. That means Zen 2 also should come in a new process: 10nm or 7nm. But this doesn't exclude refresh releases with the same CPU and same process, actually this statement from Papermaster is a confirmation because it is extremely unlikely that AMD will ship a 10nm or 7nm CPU by next year, especially early next year for Pinnacle Ridge according to rumours. So it may be true that Zen will do a Tock, Tock, Tock but with refresh releases with the same CPU every second year.

 

[mikk]

Isn't Raven Ridge confirmed to launch in 2H 2017? .

Yes for mobile.

 

[beginner99]

Tock would mean they are going to 10nm or 7nm with Pinnacle Ridge which won't happen either next year.

Nope. Tock was uArch improvement on SAME process. The tick was the new process. So tock, tock, tock implies all on 14 nm.

 

[mikk]

But this wasn't his intention to say, otherwise AMD would stay on 14nm forever. It sounds to me that the next Tock includes the tick as well.

 

[turtile]

I'm pretty sure AMD said it wasn't working on 10nm and going straight to 7nm. I doubt we will see 7nm until 2019-20.

 

[Valantar]

Yes for mobile.

I hadn't seen the roadmaps shown above before. That's a little disappointing.

Nope. Tock was uArch improvement on SAME process. The tick was the new process. So tock, tock, tock implies all on 14 nm.

Given the slowdown that's already happened in process development, and how shrinking is only going to get more difficult, this seems like the only sensible way forward. Move to new processes when they become available, but don't bank on them as the basis for all improvements.

 

[mikk]

Nope. Tock was uArch improvement on SAME process. The tick was the new process. So tock, tock, tock implies all on 14 nm.

To make it more clear based on Intels last Tock releases

Sandy Bridge 32 nm
Haswell 22 nm
Skylake 14 nm


So if he says they are going Tock Tock Tock, they are going for updated uarch + shrink. This is realistically an impossible task to do this every second year, so they have to release a refresh CPU every second year imho. Pinnacle Ridge is obviously a refresh with the same CPU.

 

[french toast]

To make it more clear based on Intels last Tock releases

Sandy Bridge 32 nm
Haswell 22 nm
Skylake 14 nm


So if he says they are going Tock Tock Tock, they are going for updated uarch + shrink. This is realistically an impossible task to do this every second year, so they have to release a refresh CPU every second year imho. Pinnacle Ridge is obviously a refresh with the same CPU.

Fine, but that obviously is not TOCK TOCK TOCK is it?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Fine, but that obviously is not TOCK TOCK TOCK is it?

What is the definition of a "Tock" in AMD's parlance?

Anyway, you might want to contact AMD on Twitter or via Email to maybe ask for clarification?

 

[french toast]

What is the definition of a "Tock" in AMD's parlance?

Anyway, you might want to contact AMD on Twitter or via Email to maybe ask for clarification?

Good point! But what mik was suggesting doesn't fit into ticks or tocks, he's speaking of optimisation-Tock, that is not what amd said.

I think amd mixed up the meaning of ticks and tocks, hell I can't even remember which is which now, I take it they meant tock = minor uarch changes, similar to construct cores.

 

[lobz]

To make it more clear based on Intels last Tock releases

Sandy Bridge 32 nm
Haswell 22 nm
Skylake 14 nm


So if he says they are going Tock Tock Tock, they are going for updated uarch + shrink. This is realistically an impossible task to do this every second year, so they have to release a refresh CPU every second year imho. Pinnacle Ridge is obviously a refresh with the same CPU.

Comprehension, mate... comprehension is the key! You still need a little practice

 

[Bouowmx]

To get the terminology straight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_CPU_microarchitectures#Roadmap

Tick: Process
Tock: Architecture (same process)