Question Zen 4 builders thread

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reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
222
58
101
Yeah agree but after 3 days of testing it works just fine with curve all core optimization at +10 which is quite bump to stock voltage, also memory work just fine on 6000 c32 (kingston renegade 6000c32- hynix chip), heating is not nice and clock dropped as expected that why it will be swap no RMA, I just refuse to wait for AMD DOA product, sent email to amd and local amd distributor to see how they want to handle this
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
481
249
116
That must be annoying, you shouldn't have to use 3rd party tool to get it to function properly. What OS you on?

W11, but the issue seems to have gone away. Didn't change anything or install any updates. Disabled the process lasso rule and the game still runs on the cache ccd.

Just got my first zen 4 CPU 7900x and its a dud, need core optimizer +10 to work stable at stock(ram also at stock no xpm profile used) or it bsod while idle load in windows/linux, will see how RMA go and if I can get new one swap on hand, as I refuse to wait as its bought in other state and not where i live

what are the operating voltages and performance like? I had the same symptoms as you when first moving to AM5 (7950x3d / Asus). I opted to return both since I live close to a microcenter and noticed that while the replacement CPU/MB (7950x3d / Gigabyte) combo were stable at stock settings, the system actually performed slightly worse in stuff like cinebench. My current per core voltage offsets and DDR5 6200/CL30/tuned (which give ~average scores to what I see people posting on the internet and 3dmark) never quite matched the scores I was getting stock on the first combo.
 
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Hotrod2go

Senior member
Nov 17, 2021
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From what I've found experimenting on my AM5 rig, is that if you raise FCLK above 2000 & go like with 2166 for example & then max out the tREFI value in the minor RAM timing (test for stability) menu, I got a 10% boost to Memory read, increase in Memory write & copy as well but also 5ns reduction in latency without changing anything else whatsoever in the entire system.
My observation seems that the entire DDR5 subsystem & the balance between FCLK + UCLK at least with 7000 series is full of surprises indeed.
 

reb0rn

Senior member
Dec 31, 2009
222
58
101
W11, but the issue seems to have gone away. Didn't change anything or install any updates. Disabled the process lasso rule and the game still runs on the cache ccd.



what are the operating voltages and performance like? I had the same symptoms as you when first moving to AM5 (7950x3d / Asus). I opted to return both since I live close to a microcenter and noticed that while the replacement CPU/MB (7950x3d / Gigabyte) combo were stable at stock settings, the system actually performed slightly worse in stuff like cinebench. My current per core voltage offsets and DDR5 6200/CL30/tuned (which give ~average scores to what I see people posting on the internet and 3dmark) never quite matched the scores I was getting stock on the first combo.
As now I run overvolt PBO curve +10 it use more power and clock less as it hit 95C in test, cinebench boost to 4.82Ghz with deepcool AG520 with memory at 6000 c32 and result in 27250 score, with default PBO curve voltage was more but cpu is unstable and defect at that settings

Also I got reply from local AMD reseller/service Asbis that they can not accept CPU and they only service the ones that are sold/imported by them?!
this is insanity from AMD part, its bought in Hungary and I am from Serbia... they behave as CPU can not be defect and you do not need service for them???? all for DOA part
 
Last edited:

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,741
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As now I run overvolt PBO curve +10 it use more power and clock less as it hit 95C in test, cinebench boost to 4.82Ghz with deepcool AG520 with memory at 6000 c32 and result in 27250 score, with default PBO curve voltage was more but cpu is unstable and defect at that settings

Also I got reply from local AMD reseller/service Asbis that they can not accept CPU and they only service the ones that are sold/imported by them?!
this is insanity from AMD part, its bought in Hungary and I am from Serbia... they behave as CPU can not be defect and you do not need service for them???? all for DOA part
The fact that you have to tweak the bios setting on YOUR motherboard with YOUR memory, does not make it DOA.

As far as the RMA policies abroad, I am not familiar with them, so I will not comment on that. But DOA means DEAD ON ARRIVAL and yours certainly is not.
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,399
4,964
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The fact that you have to tweak the bios setting on YOUR motherboard with YOUR memory, does not make it DOA.

As far as the RMA policies abroad, I am not familiar with them, so I will not comment on that. But DOA means DEAD ON ARRIVAL and yours certainly is not.
In EU it is always the shop where you bought your product that is responsible for RMA, and since Hungary is part of EU, I guess that applies here, even though Serbia is not.
 

Dave3000

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2011
1,375
91
91
Does the 7950X have more consistent performance than the 7950X3D in apps that used all 16 cores since one CCD is clocked lower than the other on the 7950X3D despite the lower clocked CCD having exclusivity to the 3D cache? For instance, if you ran CB20 multicore test 5 times in a row would scores on the 7950X be more consistent than on the 7950X3D?
 
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Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,057
3,092
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It seems new agesa boost Zen4 RAM


Key word here is UCLK 1:2 MCLK mode, kinda like intel gear 2 mode.. But yeah, can run higher clockspeed on memory with newest agesa



Jury is still out on the performance.. Single CCD cpus are limited to ~70k max mb/s (@2200FCLK) thanks to lacking GMI links.
(above ~6000MT/s memoryspeed you see very little performance increase, at this points its pretty much only FCLK that scales)



But this could maybe work out with dual CCD cpus.. Time will tell
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,315
2,922
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P
Key word here is UCLK 1:2 MCLK mode, kinda like intel gear 2 mode.. But yeah, can run higher clockspeed on memory with newest agesa

View attachment 83215

Jury is still out on the performance.. Single CCD cpus are limited to ~70k max mb/s (@2200FCLK) thanks to lacking GMI links.
(above ~6000MT/s memoryspeed you see very little performance increase, at this points its pretty much only FCLK that scales)
View attachment 83220

View attachment 83219
But this could maybe work out with dual CCD cpus.. Time will tell
What does the performance look like in properly coded memory benchmark software or games?
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,057
3,092
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Last edited:

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,057
3,092
136
Have only played around with this new bios for like 5 hours but making some good progress

Dont look too hard at the latency, had chrome and many things running in the background

Timings are very unoptimized.. But getting system ready and finding the limits for the dual CCD cpus i'm getting next week
 
Last edited:

deasd

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
554
867
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Overclocker hits DDR5-9058 memory OC on AMD AM5 platform with new firmware​



waiting for the new record.....
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,057
3,092
136
So i got my new 7950x3d earlier today and have spent like 6 hours optimizing settings for 1:1 and 1:2 mode so i could do a real A vs B comparison on a dual CCD cpu. (for single CCD cpus 1:1 mode will always be the fastest/best)

Few words before we dive into data:

Frequency/voltage curve seems half decent on this 7950x3d, but IO-die(IMC) are looking to be only average quality.

  • In 1:1 mode this cpu maxes out at 2133mhz FCLK and 6400MT/s (@ 2166mhz FCLK i have ~4mb/s performance throttling in Karhu)
  • In 2:1 mode this cpu maxes out at 2133mhz FCLK and 7600MT/s
  • Surviving minimum 15min Karhu with cache enabled is the minimum requirement for "basic stability" (can boot all the way up to 6600MT/s in 1:1 mode and 8000MT/s in 2:1 mode but dont pass Karhu then)
  • CPU were running stock boosting (PBO CO not enabled)
  • Temperature were kept as close as possible for all benchmarks
  • All voltages used are shown in benchmark-screenshot with hwinfo open below
  • Sample size of only 1 each benchmark as long as the numbers didn't look wrong
  • If you are unhappy with the benchmarks used / numbers / setup etc, feel free to share your own data

Memorytimings have been optimized for each speed. This is the fastest my kit of UD5-7800 can run @ 1.65VDD+1.6VDDQ while being stable at the different settings. (have customs barts copper heatsinks+active cooling on them)

2133mhz FCLK 6400MT/s CL26 timings:


2133mhz FCLK 7600MT/s CL32 timings:


With the introduction out of the way we can start the A vs B performance comparison

2133mhz FCLK 6400MT/s CL26

Karhu /cache enabled = 298.59 MB/s
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 43.719s
7Zip compressing = 239.720 gflops
7Zip decompressing = 264.642 gflops
Linpack xtreme 8GB bench average = 776.2206 gflops
Clam cache/mem benchmark bandwidth = 84.90 GB/s
Clam cache/mem benchmark latency = 61.77 ns
Chaos Corona 10 benchmark = 12,953,483 rays/s
Geekbench 3 memory score = 13010 MT (benchmark really dont like dual ccd cpus -> i can reach 16k mem score with my single CCD 7800x3d)
Intel MLC bandwidth = 88479 MB/s
Intel MLC latency = 62.6 ns
Wprime 32m = 26.977s



2133mhz FCLK 7600MT/s CL32

Karhu /cache enabled = 323.13 MB/s (+24.54mb/s)
Y-cruncher 2.5b = 42.905s (-0.814s)
7Zip compressing = 235.911 gflops (-3,809 gflops)
7Zip decompressing = 264.270 gflops (run to run variation)
Linpack xtreme 8GB bench average = 787.6286 gflops (+11.408 gflops)
Clam cache/mem benchmark bandwidth = 92.83 GB/s (+7,93 GB/s)
Clam cache/mem benchmark latency = 63.71 ns (+1.94 ns)
Chaos Corona 10 benchmark = 12,921,335 rays/s (run to run variation)
Geekbench 3 memory score = 13044 MT (run to run variation)
Intel MLC bandwidth = 92398 MB/s (+3919 MB/s)
Intel MLC latency = 63 ns (+0.4 ns)
Wprime 32m = 27.061s (run to run variation)


LIke i said above, for 6-8 core cpus it will always be fastest to run in 1:1 mode since the CCD is missing the links to take advantage of the extra bandwidth afforced by 2:1 mode. When you reach 6000+MT/s memoryspeed you will pretty much always be limited by FCLK. (maxes out at around 70k MB/s read and copy in AIDA @ 2200mhz FCLK)
Its only the 12-16 core dual CCD cpus that can take advantage of higher available bandwidth in certain memory benchmarks that hit all the cores at the same time like shown above here. (the few benchmarks/apps that can saturate 2 x 70k MB/s to each CCD)

For average Joe / pure gamer i would still recommend 1:1 mode for the waste majority
WIll receive a other 7950x3d next week which hopefully have stronger IO die so i can test higher memoryspeeds 🤞
 
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