Question Zen 4 builders thread

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Kaluan

Senior member
Jan 4, 2022
503
1,074
106
Something maybe to look forward to for non-day 1 AM5 adopters and serial upgraders 😅

Always thought DDR5 announcements have been slow since September on the EXPO front.

 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I do get clock stretching behavior at 6400 Mb/s. I have not tried to isolate memory, though, so it could be CPU/MC causing it. Also @ Infinity Fabric 2200 MHz, the CPU appears stable but Bluetooth audio becomes wacky. These are not unexpected behavior since the hardware is pushed to limits.

Another discovery: Samsung dies actually use less power than Hynix dies in idle. It's something like this on my system when memory VDD and VDDQ are set to 1.25V

Samsung dies: Idle 0.125 W Load 3 W
Hynix Dies: Idle 0.5 W Load 2.4 W

Load is during Prime95 LargeFFT AVX-512 runs. Another fun fact: These sticks can be arranged in any order in the board's DIMM slots. It could be 1-3 / 2-4, 1-2 / 3-4, or 1-4 / 2-3.

I think I am pretty much done fiddling with the system. Despite many complaints I shared publicly (from pricing to the operating temperature), I am rather pleased with the whole AM5 experience. The products' fit and finish is excellent, especially for a brand-new platform. I rarely ran into an issue that is not of my own making, and even then the platform handled most of my idiocy with grace. Silicon quality also appears good, no doubt thanks in part to TSMC's now-mature 5nm process, which was not the case with my first 3700X years ago. That AMD had to push the clock/power to such a degree out of factory is unfortunate, but still, compared to the 13700K I had until very recently, this 7700X is cooler-running and downright frugal in power use.

4 DIMM DDR5 stability and performance is top-notch, which is an unexpected (and a pleasant) surprise. It did not require any special setting in the BIOS, I just had to take into consideration that I am using memory sticks made from 2 different kind of ICs with different characteristics, meaning various parameters should be catered to the lower denominator. Performance loss incurred from 4 sticks (vs 2) outside of some memory-centric benchmarks is non-existent. But you have to keep an eye on the temperature under load.

Ideal configuration is running 3:3:2 ratio for Memory Controller : Memory : Infinity Fabric. Actually Infinity Fabric is "decoupled" per AMD, and from my testing that appears to be largely true. Again, outside of memory-centric benchmarks, Infinity Fabric 1800~2200 MHz impact on performance was minimal. I believe this is mostly thanks to the enlarged L2 cache masking memory latency better. Overall, my observation is that memory clock/frequency are less impactful on AM5 than on AM4, or on Socket 1700 for that matter. You simply want to match the memory controller speed to your memory sticks, and let the motherboards take care of the rest.

Speaking of motherboards, despite my gripe against the pricey nature of all things AM5, I have to say the experience has been honestly excellent. With AM5 AMD set out to be a high-end option instead of a budget alternative, and in my opinion they met that goal, from product quality standpoint. My understanding is that AMD imposes certain minimum requirements for current AM5 chipsets to motherboard vendors, such as PCB layers and VRM thresholds, and that is a big part of high price tag of current AM5 boards. Perhaps future AM5 CPUs are also in the mix of calculus, since these boards are supposed to be supported throughout years to come.

I still think there are some undeservedly expensive motherboards out there, but after having experienced the platform first-hand, my initial anger at the price tag has been somewhat neutered. If one shops intelligently, I do not think anyone will be disappointed. Hopefully as production matures the prices will come down in the future.

Overall, I am happy to have my first 5.0 GHz CPU from AMD, accompanied by fittingly nice platform. My gosh, it's been only 11 years since I ran my 2500K at 5.0 GHz.
 
Last edited:

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,836
556
126
I do get clock stretching behavior at 6400 Mb/s. I have not tried to isolate memory, though, so it could be CPU/MC causing it. Also @ Infinity Fabric 2200 MHz, the CPU appears stable but Bluetooth audio becomes wacky. These are not unexpected behavior since the hardware is pushed to limits.

Another discovery: Samsung dies actually use less power than Hynix dies in idle. It's something like this on my system when memory VDD and VDDQ are set to 1.25V

Samsung dies: Idle 0.125 W Load 3 W
Hynix Dies: Idle 0.5 W Load 2.4 W

Load is during Prime95 LargeFFT AVX-512 runs. Another fun fact: These sticks can be arranged in any order in the board's DIMM slots. It could be 1-3 / 2-4, 1-2 / 3-4, or 1-4 / 2-3.

I think I am pretty much done fiddling with the system. Despite many complaints I shared publicly (from pricing to the operating temperature), I am rather pleased with the whole AM5 experience. The products' fit and finish is excellent, especially for a brand-new platform. I rarely ran into an issue that is not of my own making, and even then the platform handled most of my idiocy with grace. Silicon quality also appears good, no doubt thanks in part to TSMC's now-mature 5nm process, which was not the case with my first 3700X years ago. That AMD had to push the clock/power to such a degree out of factory is unfortunate, but still, compared to the 13700K I had until very recently, this 7700X is cooler-running and downright frugal in power use.

4 DIMM DDR5 stability and performance is top-notch, which is an unexpected (and a pleasant) surprise. It did not require any special setting in the BIOS, I just had to take into consideration that I am using memory sticks made from 2 different kind of ICs with different characteristics, meaning various parameters should be catered to the lower denominator. Performance loss incurred from 4 sticks (vs 2) outside of some memory-centric benchmarks is non-existent. But you have to keep an eye on the temperature under load.

Ideal configuration is running 3:3:2 ratio for Memory Controller : Memory : Infinity Fabric. Actually Infinity Fabric is "decoupled" per AMD, and from my testing that appears to be largely true. Again, outside of memory-centric benchmarks, Infinity Fabric 1800~2200 MHz impact on performance was minimal. I believe this is mostly thanks to the enlarged L2 cache masking memory latency better. Overall, my observation is that memory clock/frequency are less impactful on AM5 than on AM4, or on Socket 1700 for that matter. You simply want to match the memory controller speed to your memory sticks, and let the motherboards take care of the rest.

Speaking of motherboards, despite my gripe against the pricey nature of all things AM5, I have to say the experience has been honestly excellent. With AM5 AMD set out to be a high-end option instead of a budget alternative, and in my opinion they met that goal, from product quality standpoint. My understanding is that AMD imposes certain minimum requirements for current AM5 chipsets to motherboard vendors, such as PCB layers and VRM thresholds, and that is a big part of high price tag of current AM5 boards. Perhaps future AM5 CPUs are also in the mix of calculus, since these boards are supposed to be supported throughout years to come.

I still think there are some undeservedly expensive motherboards out there, but after having experienced the platform first-hand, my initial anger at the price tag has been somewhat neutered. If one shops intelligently, I do not think anyone will be disappointed. Hopefully as production matures the prices will come down in the future.

Overall, I am happy to have my first 5.0 GHz CPU from AMD, accompanied by fittingly nice platform. My gosh, it's been only 11 years since I ran my 2500K at 5.0 GHz.

Very good write-up!

Your comment about AM5 PCB layers and VRMs should be a sticky up top. It truly makes a lot of difference and these 2 factors are often overlooked.
More PCB layers and larger heatsinks add a lot of heft to the boards.

I have been able to see the generational jump among 2 boards of the exact same family:
Gigabyte B450M-DS3H and B650M-DS3H.
The B450 parts is a true budget board for AM4, it was always intended to be that way. Nothing fancy, just SATA ports, GbE, front USB 3.0 and 1 PCI-e 3.0 x4 slot, 1 case fan header.
The B650 part, by subjective feel is almost twice the weight, and packs the features. 2.5GbE, front USB-c, 2 x PCI-e 4.0 x4 slots, 3 PWM case fan headers, very hefty heatsink at the VRMs. It is a big upgrade in feel and features. This might be the most affordable AM5 board, but even so, it doesn't feel budget.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,407
4,968
136
Very good write-up!

Your comment about AM5 PCB layers and VRMs should be a sticky up top. It truly makes a lot of difference and these 2 factors are often overlooked.
More PCB layers and larger heatsinks add a lot of heft to the boards.

I have been able to see the generational jump among 2 boards of the exact same family:
Gigabyte B450M-DS3H and B650M-DS3H.
The B450 parts is a true budget board for AM4, it was always intended to be that way. Nothing fancy, just SATA ports, GbE, front USB 3.0 and 1 PCI-e 3.0 x4 slot, 1 case fan header.
The B650 part, by subjective feel is almost twice the weight, and packs the features. 2.5GbE, front USB-c, 2 x PCI-e 4.0 x4 slots, 3 PWM case fan headers, very hefty heatsink at the VRMs. It is a big upgrade in feel and features. This might be the most affordable AM5 board, but even so, it doesn't feel budget.
Yeah, the A series will be the budget option this time around. With how PC's have evolved, the amount of expansion slots and USB slots needed have really diminished, since even the most basic motherboard will have enough for 95% of the users. Unless you have some very specific need, I really don't see any reason to go for a X670E board over a B650E. In my current rig I have two Sata SSD and a external hdd for backup, in the next I will transfer one of the SATA disks and get a nvme drive, and even so there will stille be room for two extra nvme drives and a SATA drive, if ever needed. And for USB, it is just mouse, keyboard, and a card reader. I don't need more
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
Maybe MaxxMem is confused by the chiplets.

BTW I paid like $1.20 for AIDA license but I am not getting better bandwidth reads. Am I duped?
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,063
3,113
136
Have finally completed my new 24/7 daily baseline settings with my new and better cpu

Memory @ 6500MT/s CL30-38-38-38-32-44
FCLK @ 2167mhz

100% stability with over 100k writes in aida

All done in one and same run

  • 14k karhu ram test @ 296mb/s (losing alittle performance from having hwinfo open)
  • Two full y-cruncher all tests enabled cycles
  • 25 cycles testmem5 1usmus cfg
*edit*
7950X is your OLD CPU??? What's the new one?
I've have had a few different 7950x's
 
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