Discussion Zen 5 Builders thread

[lightmanek]

The Maxxmem2 score is good. But in Rapydmark, it seems the test "Hash SHA1/256/512 MD4/5 CRC32 RIPEMD160 (512 bytes)" is giving your 9950X quite a bit of trouble. Are you sure you are on the latest AGESA?

Yes, lates 1.2.0.2.
Bear in mind I'm running my original Windows 10 Pro since at least 5950X, very not fresh at all
I have quite a bit of programs I use, so reinstall is the last thing I want to do this week.

Another thing is, 2vs4 DIMMS and SR DR memory, it can have quite an impact on some tests.

Anyway, one more test for today:


As seen from OpenGL test, tweaked timings and 103MHz FCLK gives desired results. This is best for gaming I can get from my memory kit keeping it stable. CL28 is a no-go, 6400 is also a no go even at 1.5V, simply I need new 2x24GB kit, something similar to what @Det0x is using ...

 

[lightmanek]

Good improvement!

However, something is still a bit off with the Hash test in Rapydmark. For reference, a stock 7950X with DDR5-6400 is able to finish it in about 30 secs while my Zen 2 128 thread Epyc takes about the same time as your 9950X. I think your 9950X should be able to complete this test in 28 secs or less if some mysterious setting is set right.

Interesting ....
32 Threads - 52s
16 Threads - 43s
4 Threads - 35s
2 Threads - 66s

 

[igor_kavinski]

Interesting ....
32 Threads - 52s
16 Threads - 43s
4 Threads - 35s
2 Threads - 66s

Never thought of doing that. You are a genius!

 

[lightmanek]

Never thought of doing that. You are a genius!

For some reason, I feel 8 threads would be fastest on my PC, I just can't find a way to change that in this program. I will try disabling HT tomorrow, see what that does to this subtest.

EDIT!

Proof in the pudding:


Slightly faster than your 28s prediction @igor_kavinski ...

 

[lightmanek]

PB on all Cinebench R15 subtests
OpenGL performance is amazing on this new CPU, 7800X3D is 26% slower, all else equal!
ST performance is 19% higher compared to tweaked 7800X3D, not bad at all considering Zen3 to Zen4 was such a small IPC bump in this particular benchmark and made difference in clocks, here we have at best 500MHz improvement, rest is IPC.
MT performance is obviously a bit faster, coming at 118% speedup vs 7800X3D



3D Mark2003 has seen a massive jump compared to 7800X3D too! Same GPU, Motherboard, RAM, NVME and OS.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Slightly faster than your 28s prediction @igor_kavinski ...

Hmm...so Rapydmark needs a way to tell it which test to run with how many threads...

 

[igor_kavinski]

MT performance is obviously a bit faster, coming at 118% speedup vs 7800X3D

Very nice!

Hope you have a spare SSD on which you can install Win11 24H2 and report back even more perf improvements vs. Win10

And maybe after that, something like CachyOS

 

[Det0x]

Think i have killed my first 9950X (out of the 7 i have binned)

RIP with blinking "00"

But did managed to snag back my #1 GB6 ST before it died! 😅
lol at that memspeed tho (real memspeed was 8300MT/s)


Guess its time to switch back to the ES again, it have better silicon anyway and the temps are dropping..

 

[igor_kavinski]

Think i have killed my first 9950X (out of the 7 i have binned)

What killed it? Overvolting?

 

[Det0x]

What killed it? Overvolting?

Nobody knows why it died, but it was technically overvolted from the positive CO curve. (104.5mhz baseclock)
Seeing as all the others cpus have survived just fine, i simply think the silicon was brittle on this sample..

But i'm not to worried, have killed many others cpus from older generations also

 

[igor_kavinski]

But i'm not to worried, have killed many others cpus from older generations also

Please, please push an Arrow Lake to within an inch of its life too.

Technically you should try it. It's TSMC silicon. So you can think of it as a portion of your money supporting TSMC, which indirectly supports AMD

 

[AdamK47]

I saw Hardware Unboxed comparison of X670E to X870E. They state there is no appreciable difference in overall gaming performance between the two.

I'm the kind of guy that would upgrade even if only for a 1% performance gain. One thing that gets overlooked on X870E is NitroPath. Asus is using it and I hear other manufacturers will also adopt it.

Last time I tried 8000 DDR5 speeds there weren't any performance gains in gaming. Sometimes a performance regression.

Does NitroPath make higher 1:1 memory speeds possible. Say 6600 or even 6400 with very low primary timings?

 

[Det0x]

I saw Hardware Unboxed comparison of X670E to X870E. They state there is no appreciable difference in overall gaming performance between the two.

I'm the kind of guy that would upgrade even if only for a 1% performance gain. One thing that gets overlooked on X870E is NitroPath. Asus is using it and I hear other manufacturers will also adopt it.

Last time I tried 8000 DDR5 speeds there weren't any performance gains in gaming. Sometimes a performance regression.

Does NitroPath make higher 1:1 memory speeds possible. Say 6600 or even 6400 with very low primary timings?

No 1:1 6400/6600 is purely down to IMC/tuning
In 1:1 mode the motherboard have never been the limiting factor pretty much

My 4-dimmer X670E hero could run 1:1 6600MT/s just fine, but capped out at 2:1 ~7400MT/s if i wanted full boot-to-boot stability

Seems like i'm reaching minimum 8400MT/s with boot-to-boot stability on the X870E Hero (not done tuning yet on the 8700G)
(My 9950X sample capped out @ 8000)

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I saw Hardware Unboxed comparison of X670E to X870E. They state there is no appreciable difference in overall gaming performance between the two.

I'm the kind of guy that would upgrade even if only for a 1% performance gain. One thing that gets overlooked on X870E is NitroPath. Asus is using it and I hear other manufacturers will also adopt it.

Last time I tried 8000 DDR5 speeds there weren't any performance gains in gaming. Sometimes a performance regression.

Does NitroPath make higher 1:1 memory speeds possible. Say 6600 or even 6400 with very low primary timings?

Considering 2:1 can achieve much higher speeds without nitro path, I dont think it will help 1:1 speeds much. Those are largely limited by the clock capability of the IMC in the IOD - not a signaling issue to the DIMMs.

At least, as far as I am aware.

 

[AdamK47]

Then I may stick with my Asus X670E Crosshair Extreme. I like the m.2 layout better than on all the X870E boards I've seen so far.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Then I may stick with my Asus X670E Crosshair Extreme. I like the m.2 layout better than on all the X870E boards I've seen so far.

I'm looking to ditch my X670E Aorus Master because of several issues it has but the vast majority of the X870E boards have wasted 4 cpu lanes on usb4, leading to only one cpu m.2 slot or the second slot robbing lanes from the primary pcie slot.

It's a disgrace. AMD makes a step forward (two dedicated cpu m.2 slots) then the board partners intentionally step backwards.

The Godlike keeps the two dedicated cpu m.2 slots, but I'm sure it will be priced to the moon.

 

[blackangus]

On the 870's dont you have 1x 5.0 PCIe M2 slot and then 1x or 2x 4.0 PCIe M2 slots from the chipset w/o loss of 16x 5.0 on the primary slot?
Or am I reading the manual wrong?

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

On the 870's dont you have 1x 5.0 PCIe M2 slot and then 1x or 2x 4.0 PCIe M2 slots from the chipset w/o loss of 16x 5.0 on the primary slot?
Or am I reading the manual wrong?

Yes. This is a regression from X670E designs.

Many/most X670E boards offer two CPU driven M.2 slots without affecting the primary x16 slot.

For whatever reason, most X870E boards are taking those 4 extra lanes that were used for the second CPU M.2 slot for USB4 instead of leaving them for M.2 and using chipset lanes for both USB 4 ports, and they hook up the second CPU m.2 slot to steal lanes from the primary PCIE slot.

 

[Markfw]

Yes. This is a regression from X670E designs.

Many/most X670E boards offer two CPU driven M.2 slots without affecting the primary x16 slot.

For whatever reason, most X870E boards are taking those 4 extra lanes that were used for the second CPU M.2 slot for USB4 instead of leaving them for M.2 and using chipset lanes for both USB 4 ports, and they hook up the second CPU m.2 slot to steal lanes from the primary PCIE slot.

Most 890 boards are more than x670 boards. Why would you spend more money for less performance ? If you want PCIe4, just buy this or something like it

https://www.newegg.com/p/17Z-00SW-00033

 

[gdansk]

I don't know which thread to put this since it seems to impact builders of Zen 3, 4 and 5. Does anyone know what's going on with the availability of some desirable AMD CPUs (at least in the USA)?
7800X3D - out of stock
5800X3D - out of stock (this one may be replaced by 5700X3D)
9950X - out of stock right now

Is October national PC building month? AMD inventory SNAFU? I wouldn't have thought an east coast shipping strike would cause this

 

[Seba]

Going by the evidence/observations, this is my speculation:

• 5800X3D was killed since the end of the summer. As a "bonus" in this case, the entire AM4 ecosystem seems to be on the road to the grave.
• 7800X3D is being killed right now.
• I am not interested in 9950X so no idea about that one.

 

[AdamK47]

One thing that interests me on the Asus X870E Hero is the SlimSAS connection. It's shown as 4X PCI-E 4.

I was thinking, maybe, getting a 30.72TB Micron 9400 Pro U.3 SSD. There aren't any consumer m.2 SSDs over 8TB.

Would an enterprise SSD like that work well through the SlimSAS port? I'm not even sure what kind of cable it would need.

 

[gdansk]

I have an older Asus board that uses a SFF-8643 to SFF-8639 connector for U.2 SSD. I have had no problems. I can attest to the general concept working but I can't confirm the specifics for that board.

And I am not sure if U.3 can use that same cables.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Would an enterprise SSD like that work well through the SlimSAS port? I'm not even sure what kind of cable it would need.

Some quick googlefu tells me that SlimSAS can accept U2 SSD with appropriate cable. For U3, I see it would need x8 lanes but the one on the Hero mobo is only x4 (it's confusing so don't take my word for it).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Or you could use this: https://www.startech.com/en-eu/hdd/pex4sff8639u3