Discussion Zen 5 Builders thread

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MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,953
274
126
They already started the random freeze/pause bug in the scheduler on windows 10 to push people off of it.

Amazing how that enters every EOL software from big companies.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
2,521
3,339
106
if you use an Nvidia GPU make sure to use CachyOS. I moved on to Windows 11 LTSC, meaning only security updates till 2032.

I tried Linux but it’s so time consuming.
 

9950x

Junior Member
Nov 17, 2024
3
1
36
I'm planning a zen 5 build in the coming weeks:
-9950x or 9800x3D
-5090

My main use cases are:
-running deep learning training experiments
-general application performance (e.g. google earth web, had a 13900k that used to drop frames)
I often use my PC while training too.

I'm leaning on the 9950x but I have a few concerns.
-What's the general application performance penalty of NOT using core parking drivers? I really do not want to micro-manage cpu behavior or rely on unnecessary software...

As for the 9800x3D, the major pros are that it's a single CCD, and that I believe that it will have better general application performance, such as more stable frame rates in google earth.

However, I'm concerned that 8 cores aren't enough for feeding a GPU during training. I know it's incredibly vague, but I'd appreciate some insight if anyone has to share?
I used to have a 13900k+4090 where I found some performance improvement when using 8p+8e over 8p+0e for the Dataloader when training smaller models. Hence I'm worried that a 9800x3D would leave performance on the table, especially when using a 5090.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,380
15,509
136
I'm planning a zen 5 build in the coming weeks:
-9950x or 9800x3D
-5090

My main use cases are:
-running deep learning training experiments
-general application performance (e.g. google earth web, had a 13900k that used to drop frames)
I often use my PC while training too.

I'm leaning on the 9950x but I have a few concerns.
-What's the general application performance penalty of NOT using core parking drivers? I really do not want to micro-manage cpu behavior or rely on unnecessary software...

As for the 9800x3D, the major pros are that it's a single CCD, and that I believe that it will have better general application performance, such as more stable frame rates in google earth.

However, I'm concerned that 8 cores aren't enough for feeding a GPU during training. I know it's incredibly vague, but I'd appreciate some insight if anyone has to share?
I used to have a 13900k+4090 where I found some performance improvement when using 8p+8e over 8p+0e for the Dataloader when training smaller models. Hence I'm worried that a 9800x3D would leave performance on the table, especially when using a 5090.
Unless you game a lot, get the 9950x
 
Reactions: 9950x

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,517
1,095
136
How did you get the score to improve so significantly?
Put my cold weather overclock on, just ran another one, here is the text file.

Going to tinker see if I can break 12k



FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1
Tested on: 11/17/2024 22:09:48
Score: 11668
Average Frame Rate: 87.23585
Minimum Frame Rate: 36
Performance: Very High
-Easily capable of running the game. Should perform exceptionally well, even at higher resolutions.
Loading Times by Scene
Scene #1 0.497 sec
Scene #2 3.615 sec
Scene #3 4.533 sec
Scene #4 4.304 sec
Scene #5 2.752 sec
Total Loading Time 15.701 sec

DAT:s20241117220948.dat

Screen Size: 1280x720
Screen Mode: Windowed
DirectX Version: 11
Graphics Presets: Standard (Laptop)
Resolution
-Graphics Upscaling: AMD FSR (FidelityFX Super Resolution)
-Dynamic Resolution: Enabled
-Frame Rate Threshold: Activate when frame rate drops below 60fps
-3D Resolution Scaling: 100
General
-LOD on Distant Objects: Enabled
-Dynamic Grass Interaction: Disabled
-Real-time Reflections: Off
-Edge Smoothing (Anti-aliasing): Off
-Transparent Lighting Quality: Normal
-Grass Quality: Low
-Parallax Occlusion: Normal
-Tessellation: Normal
-Glare: Off
Shadows
-Self: Display
-Other NPCs: Hide
Shadow Quality
-LOD on Character Shadows: Enabled
-LOD on Distant Object Shadows: Enabled
-Shadow Resolution: Normal - 1024p
-Shadow Cascading: Normal
-Shadow Softening: Weak
-Cast Shadows: Minimum
Texture Detail
-Texture Resolution: Normal
-Anisotropic Filtering: x4
Movement Physics
-Self: Full
-Other NPCs: Off
Effects
-Limb Darkening: Disabled
-Radial Blur: Enabled
-Screen Space Ambient Occlusion: HBAO+: Standard
-Glare: Normal
-Water Refraction: Normal
Cinematic Cutscenes
-Depth of Field: Enabled

System
Microsoft Windows 11 Pro (ver.10.0.22631 Build 22631)
AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor
16070.883MB
AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX


This software does not guarantee that your system will run the Windows versions of FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Shadowbringers, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Endwalker, and FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail.

FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Official Website
© SQUARE ENIX

Share Results
Type 1
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV Score: 11668 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DX11 FSR AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
Type 2
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV Score: 11668 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
Type 3
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Score: 11668 Very High
Type 4
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed Score: 11668
Full Results
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1
Score: 11668 Very High
1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed
AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor
AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,517
1,095
136
How did you get the score to improve so significantly?
Just remembered I can remove the boost from the over clock. Will try in a bit

Edit. Don't remember which setting it is. Turned off offset. And CNQ
 
Last edited:

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,517
1,095
136
How did you get the score to improve so significantly?
got it.



FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1
Tested on: 11/18/2024 1:55:53
Score: 12018
Average Frame Rate: 89.5862
Minimum Frame Rate: 37
Performance: Very High
-Easily capable of running the game. Should perform exceptionally well, even at higher resolutions.
Loading Times by Scene
Scene #1 0.413 sec
Scene #2 3.548 sec
Scene #3 4.411 sec
Scene #4 4.277 sec
Scene #5 2.47 sec
Total Loading Time 15.119 sec

DAT:s20241118015553.dat

Screen Size: 1280x720
Screen Mode: Windowed
DirectX Version: 11
Graphics Presets: Standard (Laptop)
Resolution
-Graphics Upscaling: AMD FSR (FidelityFX Super Resolution)
-Dynamic Resolution: Enabled
-Frame Rate Threshold: Activate when frame rate drops below 60fps
-3D Resolution Scaling: 100
General
-LOD on Distant Objects: Enabled
-Dynamic Grass Interaction: Disabled
-Real-time Reflections: Off
-Edge Smoothing (Anti-aliasing): Off
-Transparent Lighting Quality: Normal
-Grass Quality: Low
-Parallax Occlusion: Normal
-Tessellation: Normal
-Glare: Off
Shadows
-Self: Display
-Other NPCs: Hide
Shadow Quality
-LOD on Character Shadows: Enabled
-LOD on Distant Object Shadows: Enabled
-Shadow Resolution: Normal - 1024p
-Shadow Cascading: Normal
-Shadow Softening: Weak
-Cast Shadows: Minimum
Texture Detail
-Texture Resolution: Normal
-Anisotropic Filtering: x4
Movement Physics
-Self: Full
-Other NPCs: Off
Effects
-Limb Darkening: Disabled
-Radial Blur: Enabled
-Screen Space Ambient Occlusion: HBAO+: Standard
-Glare: Normal
-Water Refraction: Normal
Cinematic Cutscenes
-Depth of Field: Enabled

System
Microsoft Windows 11 Pro (ver.10.0.22631 Build 22631)
AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor
16070.883MB
AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX


This software does not guarantee that your system will run the Windows versions of FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Shadowbringers, FINAL FANTASY XIV: Endwalker, and FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail.

FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Official Website
© SQUARE ENIX

Share Results
Type 1
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV Score: 12018 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DX11 FSR AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
Type 2
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV Score: 12018 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
Type 3
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Score: 12018 Very High
Type 4
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1 https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV 1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed Score: 12018
Full Results
FINAL FANTASY XIV: Dawntrail Benchmark Ver. 1.1
Score: 12018 Very High
1280x720 Standard (Laptop) DirectX11 FSR Windowed
AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor
AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX
https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na #FFXIV
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,134
4,479
136
The X670E version is $1200. I think the more you wait, the more the chance that it will go out of stock or there will be a price hike.
Unfortunately I won’t have the funds for it until next year as I haven’t worked in quite a while. I should have income again next year at some point hopefully around March or April.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,380
15,509
136
I don't think it will have dual V-cache, so reliance on core parking/drivers will be even worse unfortunately. Would be ideal otherwise.
The issue with core parking/drivers. Where is this a problem ? I have no issues at all. Including the 8 7950x's I have.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,556
2,542
136
The issue with core parking/drivers. Where is this a problem ? I have no issues at all. Including the 8 7950x's I have.
The 7950X doesn't use core parking. Only the 7950X3D, 9900X, and 9950X.

It mostly affects games, as in when it doesn't work right (which is often), game performance can be considerably worse.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,520
685
136
I don't think it will have dual V-cache, so reliance on core parking/drivers will be even worse unfortunately. Would be ideal otherwise.
The 9950X does rely on core parking and thread priority drivers as opposed to the 7950X, even though both have the same cores on both CCD's (though one is usually binned lower). So whether the 9950X3D will have identical cores on both CCD's or not, it will almost surely rely on the same core parking and thread priority that AMD actively opted for on the 9950X.

As far as I know you can't really opt out of it, or it would be a bad idea to do so. Staying on my 7950X until this is confirmed or properly reviewed with the 9950X3D, as there's no way I'm willing to pay this much for a 16 core and not expect it to handle doing tons of stuff in the background while gaming.
 
Reactions: 9950x and Ranulf

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,033
9,074
136
My main use cases are:
-running deep learning training experiments
-general application performance (e.g. google earth web, had a 13900k that used to drop frames)
I often use my PC while training too.

I'm leaning on the 9950x but I have a few concerns.
-What's the general application performance penalty of NOT using core parking drivers? I really do not want to micro-manage cpu behavior or rely on unnecessary software...
On dual-CCD Ryzens, as well as on Threadrippers and EPYCs, we who are active in citizen science/ scientific computing occasionally use something more targeted than "core parking": When we have multithreaded applications which heavily share data between threads, we assign CPU affinity to thread groups (usually to processes a.k.a. tasks) such that the heavy sharing is confined to a CCX ( = to a last level cache domain) which is common to this thread group. On EPYCs or/and on old Zen 2 CPUs, we also sometimes arrange for such sharing across two CCXs if we want more cores per thread group. Maybe that's what you would call micro-management, but in our case, this is set-and-forget. IOW it's trivial to set up and operate once the performance characteristics of the application are known.

We have got applications in which this nets us just a moderate percentage of performance and power efficiency gain. But we also have edge case applications in which the gain can be way up in double-digit percentages on Ryzen, or even more on EPYCs with more CCXs. This specifically happens if vector arithmetic is performed on datasets that need to be kept synchronized between threads. Without scheduling hints, the cores would wait on RAM accesses a lot and also increase task energy while doing so.

However, whether or not your use case (DL training) has got similar requirements is not known to me.

Edit, PS:
Now this raises the question: Why not use CPUs from AMD's competitor, ones which have a single cache domain per processor? The answer is of course that currently AMD's CPUs are just so much better performing and efficient in computing-heavy tasks, and AMD's splitting of larger CPUs into CCXs is one of the very reasons for this advantage of theirs. And by that I specifically mean CCXs, not even CCDs.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: 9950x and Ranulf

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,851
1,391
136
Think i'm going to pickup the ASUS Prime X670E-PRO WIFI

Don't care about USB 4 and don't need Wifi 7 as my desktop is wired to the network. Just waiting for it to on sale again missed the last one.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,851
1,391
136
Are you sure? The Prime series is kinda their boring line of mobos. I prefer their CSM, TUF and Creator series.
The prime and tuff are pretty much the same board.

And the 5 years i've spent on my current AM4 prime board was a good journey no issues. And the biggest factor is in fits in the price range I want for a motherboard which is $300-$400.

The only thing I didn't like is my AM4 Prime board has an intel nic and the 670E board is realtek. But not a huge deal anyways as I'm currently using a ASUS XG-C100C NIC so I can get 2.5Gbps sync on my network.

Price in CAD the Prime board was on sale two weeks ago for like $364 but I missed the sale.

 
Last edited:
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