I'm not saying switch completely. AMD for their Pro line of laptops and desktops (where their users expect for their hard earned cash the latest, greatest and best IPC as well as absolute performance regardless of TDP) and everything else their own silicon. They would be offering their customers choice and they would more than make up for the cost of the external silicon with their price tag.
They are willing to pay, because they will use Dragon Range 3D with a TOP dGPU(4080-4090), so that laptop will have a very high price.
On the other hand, there are 2 problems using 3d cache with Strix Halo.
Price and usefulness.
That IGP won't be as powerful as RTX4080M/4090M, at best 4070M, but @adroc_thurston said It's quite a bit lower, so OEMs can't ask that much for a laptop using It.
For that level of IGP performance the 3D cache won't provide much benefit, so there is no good reason in using It.
Most users haven't got a clue about what is inside their computer, which is why Apple can sell their computers with such huge margins. A Mac just needs to be faster and prettier than the last Mac, and people will throw their hard earned money towards Apple.Their software side is architecture agnostic. If there's a compelling reason to switch, I don't see why they would hesitate.
Most users haven't got a clue about what is inside their computer, which is why Apple can sell their computers with such huge margins. A Mac just needs to be faster and prettier than the last Mac, and people will throw their hard earned money towards Apple.
I had a student who would rather buy an Apple laptop, than get a HP elitebook for her studies with free service (because she is dyslexic)....
It doesn't even need to be faster and prettier, it just needs to either be newer when they need a new computer/device because the old one no longer works, or offer something to get them to upgrade of which faster and/or prettier (by that I'm assuming you're meaning more svelte - aka thinner and lighter - or talking about new colors or larger better display?) would be expected. Most computing devices offer what most people need, so if that's your argument then you're essentially arguing there's no point to people buying new devices regardless of them being Mac or PC. Its not like people don't buy PCs because they're faster and/or prettier than the one before.
I don't even know what that last statement means are you implying her preferring the Mac is because she's dyslexic? Is the free service something related to her being dyslexic? Are you saying she prefers Mac so strongly she'd rather pay for it than get a free HP laptop? And? Chances are the Mac will offer better battery life in a more svelte total package, and provide greater total longevity, which matters to some people. It could also be that they're more used to MacOS and/or have an iPhone or other Apple stuff.
Its really weird how people are using the same tired arguments against Apple stuff when it often doesn't make sense or would apply the same to someone doing the same thing on the non-Apple side. Things are both simpler and more nuanced than those arguments.
They also make pretty damn good computers.Apple ought to hire you to make ads. Oh wait, Apple doesn't need to advertise because they have a cult like following. Also, I read that comment as getting free support because she is dyslexic. Didn't seem to difficult to understand.
Oh yeah, I just took a nice lil vacation for a couple of days'm fairly certain you won't get banned for having an opinion. Nice try though.
Ye, just like I'm sure Zen 5 is going to have "15-17 watt" parts which are fine , but don't think they will be as good as LNL.Arrow Lake mobile CPUs are going to compete with Strix Halo, while not being halo SKU/product.
Lmao blud I quoted you directlyIt came from people who can't read/comprehend
That entire second half of that statement is something me and two other people had to reiterate cuz you didn't mention it at all originally.I Said same amount of resources which would result in a bigger core then apple Axx to maintain high clock rate.
What?Like by people's logic zen4 should exist because a7x doesn't clock as high with about the same level of resources for the same level of IPC.
Longer than Firestorm, even with a uop cache hit, which depending on the application isn't a given. All the CB variations, for example, have less than 50% hitrates with the uop cacheAlso re pipeline stages , zen4 isn't particularly long , execution latency isn't particularly high and it has a uop cache, store pipeline kind of irrelevant
I mean I thought you were joking, not seriously trying to set up an illegal betting ring LOLEveryone willing to nay say but no one's willing to take the wager
I think SNC was just as large of a resource uplift vs SKL as GLC was vs SNC, though I wouldn't mind being fact checked on that ;pZen5 seems to give Zen lineage "Golden Cove" and somewhat beyond treatment, while Zen2->Zen3 was Skylake->Icelake level of advancement, helped big time by uncore changes that happened at same time.
💀💀There is exactly a 0% chance of Apple switching from their own silicon to AMD, and anyone who thinks it'll happen should sit in the corner and reevaluate themselves
One of the universities I was considering going to had this same offer, but for different reasons (not dyslexic)I had a student who would rather buy an Apple laptop, than get a HP elitebook for her studies with free service (because she is dyslexic)....
They also make pretty damn good computers.
Oh yeah, I just took a nice lil vacation for a couple of days
Ye, just like I'm sure Zen 5 is going to have "15-17 watt" parts which are fine , but don't think they will be as good as LNL.
Lmao blud I quoted you directly
That entire second half of that statement is something me and two other people had to reiterate cuz you didn't mention it at all originally.
All you said was "~apple sized core in terms of resources", not "larger than apple sized core to deal with frequency penalties".
What?
Longer than Firestorm, even with a uop cache hit, which depending on the application isn't a given. All the CB variations, for example, have less than 50% hitrates with the uop cache
I mean I thought you were joking, not seriously trying to set up an illegal betting ring LOL
I think SNC was just as large of a resource uplift vs SKL as GLC was vs SNC, though I wouldn't mind being fact checked on that ;p
💀💀
One of the universities I was considering going to had this same offer, but for different reasons (not dyslexic)
I would honestly go for the Apple laptop as well, battery life is way more important to me, as I'm coming to realize when I have to charge my laptop every day between classes at the library :/
Yes, here in Denmark you're offered a computer when you're dyslexic, which you can treat as your own as long as you attend school/study. She told me she would rather buy a Mac.It doesn't even need to be faster and prettier, it just needs to either be newer when they need a new computer/device because the old one no longer works, or offer something to get them to upgrade of which faster and/or prettier (by that I'm assuming you're meaning more svelte - aka thinner and lighter - or talking about new colors or larger better display?) would be expected. Most computing devices offer what most people need, so if that's your argument then you're essentially arguing there's no point to people buying new devices regardless of them being Mac or PC. Its not like people don't buy PCs because they're faster and/or prettier than the one before.
I don't even know what that last statement means are you implying her preferring the Mac is because she's dyslexic? Is the free service something related to her being dyslexic? Are you saying she prefers Mac so strongly she'd rather pay for it than get a free HP laptop? And? Chances are the Mac will offer better battery life possibly in a better feeling and/or lighter package (Macbook Air for instance will feel better than many either similarly thin, or will be thinner/lighter than similar solid feeling Windows laptops; not all as there are some ok options that are close in feel while still being thin and light), and probably provide greater total longevity, which matters to some people. It could also be that they're more used to MacOS and/or have an iPhone or other Apple stuff.
Its really weird how people are using the same tired arguments against Apple stuff when it often doesn't make sense or would apply the same to someone doing the same thing on the non-Apple side. Things are both simpler and more nuanced than those arguments.
AMD wouldn't sell V-cache just for $10 to OEMs and OEMs likely wouldn't like to pay $100 more for It, unless the performance increase would make It worth It.You are right about where V-Cache would get the highest utilization - in combination with highest performing GPU.
But, IMO, I think it is better to re-frame the argument to: What would make Strix Halo a "Halo" product? Chipping in $10 per CCD doesn't seem that unreasonable in context of N3E GPU / IO die that may be 200+ mm2.
Also, to keep in mind: 7800x3d beats 7700x handily in gaming despite the 8% boost clock deficit. At the same clock speed, the lead of 7800x3d would be that much greater.
In a mobile chip, the boost clock of V-Cache vs. non-V-Cache would not have the same difference. So, laptop environment, benchmarking a number of applications from gaming to productivity to content creation, the V-Cache wins should be be by higher %, V-Cache losses could be reduced or even eliminated.
Form Factor being one.AMD wouldn't sell V-cache just for $10 to OEMs and OEMs likely wouldn't like to pay $100 more for It, unless the performance increase would make It worth It.
We talk about Strix Halo as a TOP product, yet that's true only for the CPU, that IGP is simply not a Halo product If we compare It to dGPUs.
And price is the biggest problem of Strix Halo.
Who would buy Strix Halo with or without V-cache If a combination of 16C Zen5 + RTX 4060(4070) will provide the same performance at a lower cost for OEM or the consumer.
Strix Halo and cheap? Don't think so.Form Factor being one.
OEM love cheap SFF machines. If they can offer gaming capable SFF, there might be a niche, there.
Strix Halo and cheap? Don't think so.
Computers themselves are not overpriced, they are actually pretty good value.I'll give you that, but IMHO they are overpriced for what they are. And God help you if you want more memory or a larger SSD. The markup on those are insane.
If AMD is able to achieve the same performance, but at half power with much simpler, less complex design of the boards - that will result in cost savings. Will it translate into lower cost products?Strix Halo and cheap? Don't think so.
I don’t have anything against Apple, except you pay a lot compared to what you get. The problem as I see it is that most people don’t really know what to look for and do not do a comparison between different computers when they buy one. They simply chose either a Mac or PC in the price range they are looking for, that looks the best.It doesn't even need to be faster and prettier, it just needs to either be newer when they need a new computer/device because the old one no longer works, or offer something to get them to upgrade of which faster and/or prettier (by that I'm assuming you're meaning more svelte - aka thinner and lighter - or talking about new colors or larger better display?) would be expected. Most computing devices offer what most people need, so if that's your argument then you're essentially arguing there's no point to people buying new devices regardless of them being Mac or PC. Its not like people don't buy PCs because they're faster and/or prettier than the one before.
I don't even know what that last statement means are you implying her preferring the Mac is because she's dyslexic? Is the free service something related to her being dyslexic? Are you saying she prefers Mac so strongly she'd rather pay for it than get a free HP laptop? And? Chances are the Mac will offer better battery life possibly in a better feeling and/or lighter package (Macbook Air for instance will feel better than many either similarly thin, or will be thinner/lighter than similar solid feeling Windows laptops; not all as there are some ok options that are close in feel while still being thin and light), and probably provide greater total longevity, which matters to some people. It could also be that they're more used to MacOS and/or have an iPhone or other Apple stuff.
Its really weird how people are using the same tired arguments against Apple stuff when it often doesn't make sense or would apply the same to someone doing the same thing on the non-Apple side. Things are both simpler and more nuanced than those arguments.
AMD wouldn't sell V-cache just for $10 to OEMs and OEMs likely wouldn't like to pay $100 more for It, unless the performance increase would make It worth It.
We talk about Strix Halo as a TOP product, yet that's true only for the CPU, that IGP is simply not a Halo product If we compare It to dGPUs.
And price is the biggest problem of Strix Halo.
Who would buy Strix Halo with or without V-cache If a combination of 16C Zen5 + RTX 4060(4070) will provide the same performance at a lower cost for OEM or the consumer.
I would guess that the proportion of dyslexic surely dramatically and "unexpectedly" increased in Denmark...Yes, here in Denmark you're offered a computer when you're dyslexic, which you can treat as your own as long as you attend school/study. She told me she would rather buy a Mac.
What is this mystical promised land of Denmark, where to find it? :-DYes, here in Denmark you're offered a computer when you're dyslexic, which you can treat as your own as long as you attend school/study. She told me she would rather buy a Mac.
I'm more interested in the ST score. If the ST score is 140, that's roughly ~10% higher than a 7950X.So according to RedGamingTech now, 8950x on only 2400 points in CB24. My 7950x scored 2120 and i saw even 2185 score somewhere... so not that great. Quite a far cry from previously leaked CB23 score which should have been 49k. Pretty much half of that.
Granted, there are other workloads, where it may slap Zen4.
Yeah, something doesn't add up if it only achieves 10% ST improvement. If so, it would be the LOWEST single threaded uplift of a Zen generation (besides Zen to Zen+) to date, which I find hard to believe considering how many changes are under the hood.Doesn't look too good for adroc then. I hope they all wrong and adroc is right. Would suck to be disappointed since Intel hasn't shaken off their hangover yet. We need speed!
And this is based on what?To reach the identical performance, integrated CPU + iGPU will always have lower cost than having 2 components doing the same job. With additional benefit of better power efficiency and smaller size weight.
With the amount of LPDDR5x It will likely have, I have to wonder If the price will be lower than a comparably performing laptop with 4060/4070.The advantage of having dGPU has always been in delivering greater performance, beyond iGPU. Not the cost. I think that's a given. AMD will sell Strix Halo at price increment (over just Zen 5) that is lower than the cost of adding 4060/4070.
I don't think AMD will make that many of them, so I don't expect many laptop models or good availability.What Strix Halo is going to achieve (assuming good adoption by OEMs) is taking away a segment of the market from dGPUs where dGPU performance is the same or weaker than Strix Halo.