Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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I agree but this doesnt explain the discrepancy in the tests posted by Geddagod, the only explanation of this discrepancy is that RPL gain nothing with AVX2 in Povray while the 7950X sure gain 18%, i find this contradictory, if Zen 4 gain such a percentage there s no reason that RPL wouldnt.

Now we dont know if his source has recompiled the tests such that they use AVX2 since that s not an official source.

Are you suggesting that the Pov-ray binary that computerbase uses doesn't have any SSE/AVX code for AMD CPUs?
 
Reactions: SarahKerrigan

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
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From compiling all of the online speculation over the months. The conclusion for Zen 5 seems to be a large uplift in multicore processing power over Zen4 and as little as 10% uplift in single core performance. Not sure if that also means about 10% uplift in IPC.
It's ughhh the opposite.
You've been pushing "it's not a real real 1T bump" for eons. Maybe you should stop.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Is there a remote possibility that these benchmarks included workloads which are power-limited?
See for yourself: https://www.anandtech.com/show/18747/the-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-review-amd-s-fastest-gaming-processor

So many workloads there where the 7950X3D comes out looking like a total wuss. I mean, this level of indignity and humiliation is just too much for a CPU sporting the holy V-cache!

I blame it on the fact that one of the CCDs is missing the V-cache so while the V-cache CCD threads may be finishing quickly in many cases, the threads scheduled on the vanilla CCD are dragging down the workload and the scheduler isn't intelligently treating the V-cache CCD as the preferred one to schedule threads on, as soon as cores in the V-cache CCD race to idle. This is the only explanation I can come up with for the 7950X3D losing to the 7950X in compression workloads which love low latency, for pete's sake!

More investigation is definitely warranted and I would say that pitting a 7800X3D against a 7950X's best CCD (other one disabled) with both clocked at the same speed, would reveal some very intriguing insights.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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Are you suggesting that the Pov-ray binary that computerbase uses doesn't have any SSE/AVX code for AMD CPUs?

No AVX2 on AMD CPUs in Povray contrary to Intel.

That was proved by a member in this very forum who stated that it isnt implemented for AMD, only for Intel, as already said he recompiled Povray to enable AVX2 for AMD and the 7950X is 18% faster than with the regular version wich is the one used by Computerbase for ST and MT tests.

He also made tests with older versions of Zen and they were faster as well, even Zen 1 despite no AVX2 support.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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MT increase is typically < ST increase when TDP is unchanged
Zen 5 isn't your typical CPU now, is it?

In my mind's eye, the massive 1T gain enables HT to work more efficiently on Zen 5, yielding a greater uplift in MT, than at least Zen 4. If not, something is wrong. A bottleneck that they might fix in Zen 6.

If we assume that Zen 5 is more effective at dealing with branchy code than anything that has come before it, that means less pipeline bubbles and less time spent starting from scratch which increases the throughput of both the physical and virtual thread. That "branchy code effectiveness" assumption comes from Zen 5's high 1T performance. If there are other ways to radically improve 1T performance without improving the handling of branchy code, I'm all ears and your humble student.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,593
8,770
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No AVX2 on AMD CPUs in Povray contrary to Intel.

That was proved by a member in this very forum who stated that it isnt implemented for AMD, only for Intel, as already said he recompiled Povray to enable AVX2 for AMD and the 7950X is 18% faster than with the regular version wich is the one used by Computerbase for ST and MT tests.

He also made tests with older versions of Zen and they were faster as well, even Zen 1 despite no AVX2 support.

This doesn’t address my question. . .
 

MarkPost

Senior member
Mar 1, 2017
239
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This doesn’t address my question. . .
here:


and

 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,166
3,862
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This doesn’t address my question. . .

That was what i m talking about, anything not related to this point has nothing do do with my statements, wich is that AVX2 is not used in Povray for AMD CPUs, i didnt talk of any other binaries, let alone of Computerbase ones.

The only relevance with Computerbase is that the Povray version they re using doesnt use AVX2 with AMD chips since they use the 3.7 version wich is the last official one.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,593
8,770
136
That was what i m talking about, anything not related to this point has nothing do do with my statements, wich is that AVX2 is not used in Povray for AMD CPUs, i didnt talk of any other binaries, let alone of Computerbase ones.

The only relevance with Computerbase is that the Povray version they re using doesnt use AVX2 with AMD chips since they use the 3.7 version wich is the last official one.

So your comments about povray in SPEC are meaningless since comparing AVX to AVX2 compiled code versus SPEC compiled code is pointless.
 

SarahKerrigan

Senior member
Oct 12, 2014
599
1,457
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So your comments about povray in SPEC are meaningless since comparing AVX to AVX2 compiled code versus SPEC compiled code is pointless.

Indeed. "Something must be wrong with the Geekerwan SPECFP run" does not follow naturally from what's being shown at all.

(But it also doesn't matter, because who cares about SPECfp?)
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,166
3,862
136
So your comments about povray in SPEC are meaningless since comparing AVX to AVX2 compiled code versus SPEC compiled code is pointless.

I m saying that SPEC Povray score difference between Zen 4 and RPL is about the same as Computerbase.

So you ll have to assume that AVX2 bring no perfs enhancement in Povray for RPL, otherwise it wouldnt be faster in SPEC (wrt to Zen 4) by the same amount than when using AVX2, that s basically what you re saying.

Or that Geekerwan numbers are flawed eventually, wich i already pointed as being a possibility.
 
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