True, but the rate at which anecdotes are piling up increasingly point to that being indeed the case.Isn't it hard to say without normalizing for clock rates?
Hadn't heard of it personally but if measuring performance on a dual CCX laptop with separate core types there is a lot of room for scheduling tomfoolery, clock rate differences and so on.True, but the rate at which anecdotes are piling up increasingly point to that being indeed the case.
Remember the recent tweet from a laptop reviewer about weirdness in Cyberpunk 2077 performance?
If dual - CCX was the sole reason, why specifically mention Cyberpunk?Hadn't heard of it personally but if measuring performance on a dual CCX laptop with separate core types there is a lot of room for scheduling tomfoolery, clock rate differences and so on.
MT fits to AMDs claims, ST however... it should be 17% for 9900X and 19% for 9700X9700X MT +8% ST+13% (zen5 > zen4)
9900X MT +10% ST+10%
And you'd have to recompile all your Linux distro from scratch with the proper Zen5 compiler flags. I have never done that as I never felt the need during my 30 years of using Linux because my new CPU was always performing better by default than the previous one.I suspect that Zen 5 performance gains in most existing non-AVX-512 software will be meager until software is optimized and recompiled for Zen 5. I've said it before many times. Zen 5 is a FOSS powering design where compiling binaries before deployment or serious usage isn't an alien concept.
The crazy trajectory that Windows 11 seems to be on and the fact that I don't like the UI changes Microsoft has made to it in comparison to their far better Windows 10, makes me confident that I'll switch to mostly Linux based computing in the future and so Zen 5 seems like a very attractive option to me that will give me years of loyal service with incremental improvement in software performance.
I'll wait at least a year post launch for a Phoronix anniversary article on Zen 5 performance before calling it a less successful design than Zen 3 or Zen 4 were over their predecessors.
TLDR: A modern successful CPU should not require recompilation of applications to perform well.
That likely is the use of new instructions. Do you really think Intel used AMD specific compiler flags to build their Clear Linux?AMD Ryzen 9 7950X "Zen 4" Rocks On Intel's Clear Linux - Phoronix
www.phoronix.com
Even Zen 4 sees a performance improvement when running on an Intel optimized (and thus recompiled) distro.
View attachment 103989
Not necessarily. There are many distros nowadays that ship optimized x86_64-v4 (AVX512) binaries, and some are going further, having repositories for packages compiled for zen4 and zen5 uarchs (CachyOS). I don't know how extensive these repos are, but it should be feasible to include most common and not-so-common packages beyond the system ones.And you'd have to recompile all your Linux distro from scratch with the proper Zen5 compiler flags.
Definitely, but what's the problem if a part of the performance increase can only be obtained after recompilation? It's been the same for many years tbh, how many years did "normal users" had to wait before AVX2 became widely used?A modern successful CPU should not require recompilation of applications to perform well
I certainly agree with you. But this is different from having to do specific tuning for a uarch (rather than targetting new instructions). And that's the point I'm arguing about 😀Not necessarily. There are many distros nowadays that ship optimized x86_64-v4 (AVX512) binaries, and some are going further, having repositories for packages compiled for zen4 and zen5 uarchs (CachyOS). I don't know how extensive these repos are, but it should be feasible to include most common and not-so-common packages beyond the system ones.
Definitely, but what's the problem if a part of the performance increase can only be obtained after recompilation? It's been the same for many years tbh, how many years did "normal users" had to wait before AVX2 became widely used?
I suspect that Zen 5 performance gains in most existing non-AVX-512 software will be meager until software is optimized and recompiled for Zen 5. I've said it before many times. Zen 5 is a FOSS powering design where compiling binaries before deployment or serious usage isn't an alien concept.
The crazy trajectory that Windows 11 seems to be on and the fact that I don't like the UI changes Microsoft has made to it in comparison to their far better Windows 10, makes me confident that I'll switch to mostly Linux based computing in the future and so Zen 5 seems like a very attractive option to me that will give me years of loyal service with incremental improvement in software performance.
I'll wait at least a year post launch for a Phoronix anniversary article on Zen 5 performance before calling it a less successful design than Zen 3 or Zen 4 were over their predecessors.
They claimed a 11-22% MT uplift in Blender. (11% for 9700X, 16% for 9600X, 17% for 9900X and 22% for 9950X). Blender has 23% IPC according to them. So for 17% IPC R23 you get like 8-16% uplift. 8% for 9700X, ~12% for 9600X and 9900X and 16% for 9950X.What claims? Did I miss something?
Address him as "ES user" in your post and say please and maybe he will?Igor, assuming the ES user that provided the leaks earlier still has it, is there any way it would be possible to get him to run a locked 4 or 5 GHz ST run...
They claimed a 11-22% MT uplift in Blender. (11% for 9700X, 16% for 9600X, 17% for 9900X and 22% for 9950X). Blender has 23% IPC according to them. So for 17% IPC R23 you get like 8-16% uplift. 8% for 9700X, ~12% for 9600X and 9900X and 16% for 9950X.
And you'd have to recompile all your Linux distro from scratch with the proper Zen5 compiler flags. I have never done that as I never felt the need during my 30 years of using Linux because my new CPU was always performing better by default than the previous one.
If a CPU requires recompilation of existing applications to perform well, I call that a failure. [...]
TLDR: A modern successful CPU should not require recompilation of applications to perform well.
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X "Zen 4" Rocks On Intel's Clear Linux - Phoronix
www.phoronix.com
Even Zen 4 sees a performance improvement when running on an Intel optimized (and thus recompiled) distro.
View attachment 103989
Yeah but there will be developers who WILL optimize for Zen 5."Developers just need to optimize for it more!" is a bad excuse made by vendors of subpar microarchitectures for significantly longer than I've been alive.
Yeah but there will be developers who WILL optimize for Zen 5.
Think Unreal Engine.
Think AAA games.
Think Windows itself (once they release an optimized Visual Studio).
And obviously Linux developers will optimize too coz that's their passion.
And many, many others.
If you are competing in a tough market, you will do whatever is necessary to maintain your edge.
Because that's the quickest one I could find. My reasoning is that if an Intel optimized distro is giving Zen 4 an uplift, imagine what a distro focused on Zen 4/5 performance would do.Hardly a compelling argument for "recompiling to get acceptable perf is normal."
Because that's the quickest one I could find. My reasoning is that if an Intel optimized distro is giving Zen 4 an uplift, imagine what a distro focused on Zen 4/5 performance would do.
If I had the time and resources, I would find open source versions of software before Zen 4 announcement and one year after announcement and build them both with the latest compiler and maybe then we would have more data on what I'm claiming.