Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,765
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According to Linus Strix Point has no SODIMM support at all, which also means that Framework for instance can't use it in their laptops.

I really hope this policy will change. I don't care if this is achieved with CAMM3 or whatnot, but SKUs with expandable memory really should be supported for higher-end laptops and mini-pc's
 
Jul 13, 2024
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I don't understand the decision to beef up FP perf while barely moving the needle with int perf. Especially for Strix Point-

Zen 4 was more than capable in FP.

The main reason fp perf is suddenly important in laptops is the AI hype.

But you already have the NPU and GPU for those workloads.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
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Smartphone usage is often spiky.
Certainly, but the very fact that GB also work with Windows is a prove that they pretend to be representative of PC perfs as well, otherwise they would do a specific test suite that is smartphones dedicated.

According to Linus Strix Point has no SODIMM support at all, which also means that Framework for instance can't use it in their laptops.

I really hope this policy will change. I don't care if this is achieved with CAMM3 or whatnot, but SKUs with expandable memory really should be supported for higher-end laptops and mini-pc's
That cant be true since there s official support for DDR 5600, what he mean eventually is that big OEMs will use only LPDDR.
 
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FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,763
2,208
106
According to Linus Strix Point has no SODIMM support at all, which also means that Framework for instance can't use it in their laptops.

I really hope this policy will change. I don't care if this is achieved with CAMM3 or whatnot, but SKUs with expandable memory really should be supported for higher-end laptops and mini-pc's
I watched that video, and I was sure that's a mistake. I think be meant to say there aren't any laptops with SODIMM for now.

Strix supports DDR5. So what's preventing laptops from having SODIMM DDR5?
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,164
1,426
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Edit : That s why Geekbench do pauses between each test, that s a blatant help for Apple as their core wouldnt yield good numbers if the tests would be run without delays.
Only just found that out recently when it was mentioned here.

Cannot think of any valid reason any benchmark would pause between tests as that would just skew things in favour of bursty behaviour especially in a lightweight benchmark like GB.

Don't know about any Apple prejudice but it certainly favours any device whose cooling cannot cope with full usage.
 
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Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
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I'm mostly talking about STX's horrendous uncore. 1MB L3 per Z5c core, and Meteor Lake's P-to-LP-core level cross-CCX latency.
When has Zen ever had a good uncore?
Also that's 500% a Zen 6 target: Z5 was meant to be the core, Z6 the uncore.
They've absolutely kicked that can down the road.
 

GTracing

Member
Aug 6, 2021
78
193
76
According to Linus Strix Point has no SODIMM support at all, which also means that Framework for instance can't use it in their laptops.

I really hope this policy will change. I don't care if this is achieved with CAMM3 or whatnot, but SKUs with expandable memory really should be supported for higher-end laptops and mini-pc's
The HX 370 specs say that it supports DDR5. Does it only support soldered memory?

CAMM can't come soon enough.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,763
2,208
106
That cant be true since there s official support for DDR 5600, what he mean eventually is that big OEMs will use only LPDDR
Indeed. DDR laptops are a dying breed. LPDDR has more bandwidth and is more power efficient- ideal properties for a laptop APU. A historical shortcoming of LPDDR was that it only came in soldered form, but now that's changing thanks to LPCAMM.
 
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MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
209
497
96
I don't understand the decision to beef up FP perf while barely moving the needle with int perf. Especially for Strix Point-

Zen 4 was more than capable in FP.

The main reason fp perf is suddenly important in laptops is the AI hype.

But you already have the NPU and GPU for those workloads.
The thing is, in Strix Point there is really little that could boost the FP performance. The only thing worth of note is updated scheduler layout, bigger register file and lower add latency. Where int side was boosted with improvements to load, store, and more execution units. I mean int scalar side has seen much more changes comparatively speaking.

[Mind you we are not talking about Granite Ridge, nor about any benefits that AVX512 brings as those are not used in this tests according to given compiler settings, actually -Ofast and -g on clang 14 won't even able avx2]
 
Jul 27, 2020
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The main reason fp perf is suddenly important in laptops is the AI hype.

But you already have the NPU and GPU for those workloads.
You are right and AMD is already advertising total SoC AI TOPS on their product pages.




Maybe their Amuse software will use all three processing blocks to realize the Total TOPS some day: https://community.amd.com/t5/ai/int...-with-amd-xdna-super-resolution-a/ba-p/697374
 
Last edited:

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,517
4,303
136
Only just found that out recently when it was mentioned here.

Cannot think of any valid reason any benchmark would pause between tests as that would just skew things in favour of bursty behaviour especially in a lightweight benchmark like GB.

Don't know about any Apple prejudice but it certainly favours any device whose cooling cannot cope with full usage.

At GB they knew what they were doing, and i dont think that the goal was to help some obscure smartphones vendors that produce mediocre and cheap designs.

And i wont even talk of GB 6 numbers in respect of GB 5 when it comes to some given brands, look the same as Cinebench whose updates seems to always favour the same brand, just look at the evolution from R15 to R20/R23 and R2024.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,164
1,426
136
A historical shortcoming of LPDDR was that it only came in soldered form, but now that's changing thanks to LPCAMM.
Historically shortcoming for consumers, manufacturers love a bit of planned obsolescence.

Although judging by deal sites, it seems while Asus were rubbing their hands at Apple-like margins on those OLED laptops they seemed to missed how good Apple is at inventory management as these 8GB soldered ones keep popping up at bargain prices - looks like nobody wants them and being soldered there's not much they can do!
 

MS_AT

Senior member
Jul 15, 2024
209
497
96
If amd does 12-core APU in the next gen, they should not split them into such different CCXs. Too many issues.
We don't know which issues they solved by splitting them I guess they did not do that out of malice to the user. Also people mention that Turin-D is 16core CCX, but it is 16 times the same core, with the same V/F curve etc.
 
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The Hardcard

Member
Oct 19, 2021
199
288
106
At GB they knew what they were doing, and i dont think that the goal was to help some obscure smartphones vendors that produce mediocre and cheap designs.

And i wont even talk of GB 6 numbers in respect of GB 5 when it comes to some given brands, look the same as Cinebench whose updates seems to always favour the same brand, just look at the evolution from R15 to R20/R23 and R2024.
Is it favoring a brand or the result of other brands getting optimization work earlier on and that other brand just getting its own optimations now.

R23 was the first compilation for ARM but was still using libraries that Intel had optimized for its chips. Apple Silicon getting optimizations in R24 doesn’t make the Intel optimizations go away in the x86 version.
 
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