Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[MarkPost]

9700X 17% faster than 7700X when you equal PPT to 142W

 

[ErichZannMusician]

I don't know why some are pushing the narrative that this is somehow better in games.

I compared the PCGH.de and Computerbase gaming results showing the 1% lows and the frickin i5 14600K is faster by 13%, narrowing down to the largest set of games common to both websites, so long as they allow me to choose them.

These are all running the max JEDEC speeds supported on each platform. 5600 MT/s

 

[exquisitechar]

I don't know why some are pushing the narrative that this is somehow better in games.

I compared the PCGH.de and Computerbase gaming results showing the 1% lows and the frickin i5 14600K is faster by 13%, narrowing down to the largest set of games common to both websites, so long as they allow me to choose them.

These are all running the max JEDEC speeds supported on each platform. 5600 MT/s

View attachment 104661View attachment 104659

Non-X3D Ryzen is garbage in gaming and AMD makes it seem better than it is, no surprise there. Not like Zen5 would change anything with its reused uncore and mediocre core. Though it will make vanilla Granite Ridge kind of DOA in DIY desktops.

Yeah, showing the power-starved SKUs is nothing short of moronic.

Yeah, that’s an idiotic blunder from AMD. A whole lot of people look at the charts and see garbage performance improvements in MT loads without caring about the fact that the CPUs are running into power limits, which paints this already disappointing launch in an even worse light.

 

[MarkPost]

Non-X3D Ryzen is garbage in gaming and AMD makes it seem better than it is, no surprise there. Not like Zen5 would change anything with its reused uncore and mediocre core. Though it will make vanilla Granite Ridge kind of DOA in DIY desktops.

Yeah, that’s an idiotic blunder from AMD. A whole lot of people look at the charts and see garbage performance improvements in MT loads without caring about the fact that the CPUs are running into power limits, which paints this already disappointing launch in an even worse light.

well, brain is there for some reason, to use it.

 

[tsamolotoff]

These are all running the max JEDEC speeds supported on each platform. 5600 MT/s

So these results are automatically discarded, thanks for doing this for us. Both CB and PCGH are using dubious methodology and very random settings for all tested CPUs

 

[Abwx]

I don't know why some are pushing the narrative that this is somehow better in games.

I compared the PCGH.de and Computerbase gaming results showing the 1% lows and the frickin i5 14600K is faster by 13%, narrowing down to the largest set of games common to both websites, so long as they allow me to choose them.

These are all running the max JEDEC speeds supported on each platform. 5600 MT/s

View attachment 104661View attachment 104659

Why did you remove half of the games in Computerbase charts.?.

Because otherwise the difference would be only 2% and wouldnt fit your biaised
13% narrative.?

Gaming-Performance des Ryzen 5 9600X & Ryzen 7 9700X: Spiele-Benchmarks auf zwei verschiedenen Grafikkarten

Ryzen 5 9600X & Ryzen 7 9700X im Test: Spiele-Benchmarks auf zwei verschiedenen Grafikkarten / Gaming-Benchmarks mit einer GeForce RTX 4090

www.computerbase.de

So these results are automatically discarded, thanks for doing this for us. Both CB and PCGH are using dubious methodology and very random settings for all tested CPUs

Look better, the guy removed half of the games in Computerbase charts.

 

[Rheingold]

Where Zen 5 actually shines is temperature:

That's -35°C from 7700X to 9700X and still -15°C when both are running at 142W PPT. Thank god, this will hopefully end the thousands of "my CPU is running too hot" posts in German forums that I had to endure for Ryzen 7000 during the last two years.

 

[tsamolotoff]

Look better, the guy removed half of the games in Computerbase charts.

Even without this no one really uses or benchmarks the CPUs with JEDEC memory, it tanks AM5 performance disproportionately hard and isn't really used in real life scenario (unless you build home server with some sort of cheap ECC ram)

 

[tsamolotoff]

Thank god, this will hopefully end the thousands of "my CPU is running too hot" posts in German forums that I had to endure for Ryzen 7000 during the last two years.

It'd matter if it provided tangible benefit in performance, but most people will just open their faviourite tech-youtuber (GN or HU), see their thumbnails and won't buy the CPUs. AMD simply shot into both their legs and the dangling little thing between them as well...

 

[Asterox]

Where Zen 5 actually shines is temperature:
View attachment 104662
That's -35°C from 7700X to 9700X and still -15°C when both are running at 142W PPT. Thank god, this will hopefully end the thousands of "my CPU is running too hot" posts in German forums that I had to endure for Ryzen 7000 during the last two years.

Crazy lower numbers, from LTT Youtube test.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

well, brain is there for some reason, to use it.

Yeah, but not many people like to use It.

 

[inquiss]

AVX-512 is only a small part of RPCS3. A big uplift on it won't translate to the same uplift for the PS3 emulator

? AMD is fine. Core will do well on servers, it will be competitive on mobile and they'll have a cost advantage there. And it's a much more efficient core for Office/General DT tasks. The only public that will be disappointed will be the gaming one.

But that doesn't mean they'll need to rush Z6. If anything, they need to make sure Z6 improves radically over Z5.

And these are not the gaming chips. That's the cache ones. Gamers would be picking the cache code anyway

 

[Abwx]

Even without this no one really uses or benchmarks the CPUs with JEDEC memory, it tanks AM5 performance disproportionately hard and isn't really used in real life scenario (unless you build home server with some sort of cheap ECC ram)

5600Mt/s is the official spec for those CPUs, so it make sense to make comparisons with the guaranted RAM speed.

Beside that s not the point, the guy selected the games such that CB tests results are the same as PCGH whose reviewer is known to trick the numbers in Intel s favour, FI in his 7950X review he doctored the tests such that the 14900K is 15% faster in MT while at Computerbase it barely matched the 7950X even when using 330W.

 

[RnR_au]

 

[yuri69]

Stupid comment. Bulldozer on par with the predecessor but it had less IPC and consumed much more. Zen5 is a slight improvement but it has better IPC and consumes noticeably LESS.

Bulldozer was a departure from Intel-like cores and it suffered on Windows way more than on Linux. For some reason Zen 5 seems to behave similarly.

Detailed profiling from Chips'n'Cheese can't come soon enough.

 

[soresu]

Extra cache is basically heaploads of (almost) free performance

From what I have seen even in games the V$ is very variable in benefit ranging from nothing to 20+% improvement.

 

[Hitman928]

5600Mt/s is the official spec for those CPUs, so it make sense to make comparisons with the guaranted RAM speed.

Beside that s not the point, the guy selected the games such that CB tests results are the same as PCGH whose reviewer is known to trick the numbers in Intel s favour, FI in his 7950X review he doctored the tests such that the 14900K is 15% faster in MT while at Computerbase it barely matched the 7950X even when using 330W.

For Intel, official spec is actually ddr5 4400 for any boards with 4 slots, even if only two of the slots are populated. That’s something that came out of the recent instability saga for Intel. I highly doubt the people saying only official memory speeds should be tested would actually want to follow that spec though.

 

[Hitman928]

From what I have seen even in games the V$ is very variable in benefit ranging from nothing to 20+% improvement.

I think the V cache helps basically always in gaming, it’s just that the clock speed regression sometimes negates, or hurts performance more than the V cache helps.

 

[Tup3x]

So, if this is the result for non-X3D version, I somewhat doubt that X3D variant would be much better. At least it wouldn't be worth it for Zen 4 users.

In any case... Two years and this is the result?

 

[soresu]

Bulldozer was a departure from Intel-like cores and it suffered on Windows way more than on Linux

IIRC it took a while for the Windows scheduler to properly support the Bulldozer CMT architecture.

MS have a tendency to gatekeep such things within major OS updates, while with Linux it just happens whenever the code is ready.

 

[Hitman928]

Consolation prize is that overclocking becomes a thing again with these reduced TDP parts.

 

[biostud]

So, if this is the result for non-X3D version, I somewhat doubt that X3D variant would be much better. At least it wouldn't be worth it for Zen 4 users.

In any case... Two years and this is the result?

As already mentioned, only if the X3D versions are not downclocked like the 7800X3D, which might be a possibility with the low TDP of the 9700X.

 

[tsamolotoff]

From what I have seen even in games the V$ is very variable in benefit ranging from nothing to 20+% improvement.

Yes, those extra % are basically free in terms of power or architecture, that's what I've meant. Also, it's not 20%? it's roughly 30% in cs2 (posted my own comparisons a week ago or so in this thread), around 50%+ in tarkov and pubg, and so on. Most people simply don't know how to test CPUs and their benchmarks are basically GPU tests instead of CPU tests.

 

[soresu]

I think the V cache helps basically always in gaming

AFAIK the cache increase only actually helps if the game is moving data resources around significantly in flight.

Some game engines are better than others at managing data movement, so it's completely within reason that some games will benefit far less from cache increases like X3D.

Basically V cache is highlighting lazy programmers as much as anything else.

I'd be interested to see V$ benefits on day 1 games vs after a couple years of patches to refine perf.

 

[soresu]

ranging from nothing to 20+% improvement

Also, it's not 20%?

Notice the + next to the 20.

I was aware the benefit can get wild improvements, but couldn't be bothered to look up the exact figures.