Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Jul 27, 2020
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Btw the whole cloud runs on Linux *in production*.
Those are experts. The lesser people who far outnumber them, stick with Windows

Windows Server is fine as long as you stick with Microsoft technologies. Our application is legacy dotnet webforms based and the software developer is in no immediate hurry to rewrite it. We also can't get rid of them because the application is too big a project to rewrite by hiring our own team or contracting it out to some other company. It will be doomsday for us when all their developers are on the same plane and it crashes
 

naukkis

Senior member
Jun 5, 2002
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You have in mind old linear regulators that use a 50-60Hz transformers as voltage source, such devices have the capacitor charged every 10-12ms or so, hence the need for a big capacitor, but think of a 50MHz switching speed, the capacitor can be reduced by a 1 000 000 factor at same output current, and at 500MHz switching speed, wich is a cakewalk for transistors used in CPUs, 10pF is enough where 100uF where necessary at a 50Hz frequency.
No. I mean absolutely transistor basics. With switching power supply extremely small voltage drop is pretty much impractical, they just don't work well when input and output voltages are pretty much same. AMD does seems to use simplest possible linear regulators - at silicon level that could be just bunch of transistors between power rails from right quantity is switched on to meet current and voltage needs on output rail. Compared to switching power supply much smaller area is needed, output ripple is more stable and efficiency is better. And cpu designers probably don't mind to have near core voltage regulators without high-frequency switching electromagnetic interference.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Those are experts. The lesser people who far outnumber them, stick with Windows

Windows Server is fine as long as you stick with Microsoft technologies. Our application is legacy dotnet webforms based and the software developer is in no immediate hurry to rewrite it. We also can't get rid of them because the application is too big a project to rewrite by hiring our own team or contracting it out to some other company. It will be doomsday for us when all their developers are on the same plane and it crashes
there was a point in time when if you wanted to run .net or develop in something specific to the windows server system you had to run windows, but since then these have been developed to run on linux. it's always a surprise to me personally when a page bonkers out and Im served a windows server error page. a rareity for rareities sake.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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No. I mean absolutely transistor basics. With switching power supply extremely small voltage drop is pretty much impractical, they just don't work well when input and output voltages are pretty much same. AMD does seems to use simplest possible linear regulators - at silicon level that could be just bunch of transistors between power rails from right quantity is switched on to meet current and voltage needs on output rail. Compared to switching power supply much smaller area is needed, output ripple is more stable and efficiency is better. And cpu designers probably don't mind to have near core voltage regulators without high-frequency switching electromagnetic interference.

Mosfets can have very low resistance, voltage drop will be negligible, and think putting 10 000 or more in parallel, in a CPU such a quantity is free, beside they are connected as common source, just like the rest of the CPU circuitries, that s the only mode that make sense in digital circuitry, you ll never see common drain connected mosfets since that would require a second voltage rail ( and even a third to drive the Pfets) to drive them efficently to get the lower possible RDSon (RDSON = Drain-Source Resistance when the device is switched on)

In Zen since that s the positive rail that is power switched it s Pfets that are used as switches, by principle they have higher RDSon than Nfets and are the frequency limiting devices in CPUs much more than Nfets, but as said since they can be paralleled at will that s not a big issue.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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there was a point in time when if you wanted to run .net or develop in something specific to the windows server system you had to run windows, but since then these have been developed to run on linux.
That's .Net Core.

The one we have, ASP.NET Web Forms, isn't really Linux compatible.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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That's .Net Core.

The one we have, ASP.NET Web Forms, isn't really Linux compatible.
not a soft wares guy but isn't that a wysiwyg on anemic steroids? I'm surprised you haven't tried hanging yourself at this juncture in life dealing with that awfulness. No one should go through that kind of trauma in life. I'd recommend taking up drinking but I suspect you don't drink gien where you live.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski
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The kids in my class are 17-19, Belgium.
Sometimes a stupid seller, sometimes a YouTube influencer.
Ah. What do you teach? I hope your kids know how to spot a good CPU by now

If not, make each one of them write "Zen 5 will rewrite x86 history" 500 times. Then take their group photo and paste on the school bulletin board on Zen 5 launch day with copies of the glowing reviews. Truly a memorable day it will be!
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Thibsie

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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The kids in my class are 17-19, Belgium.
Sometimes a stupid seller, sometimes a YouTube influencer.
ah maybe some old fart whose only exposure to amd was 30 years ago.there used to be a running joke that amd ran x86 better than intel. or it's all that mayonnaise you lot slap on your food at the chippy.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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In a way I am sad that Zen 5 appears to be such a leap over Zen 4, and is coming soon. I just finished spending about $15,000 on 3 Genoa systems. Now they will be blown out of the water by Zen 5 !
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and A///

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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i hope i did that right. spent an hour trying to figure it out. arrow lake might be good, im not one of those amd folks who think intel is dead in the water and not placing blind feelings into some engineering sample bs like some of you here. arrowlake may be a good contender against zen 5 but it will also be coming out several months later than zen 5 or almost a full 6-7 months later. zen 5 has been paraded around by higher ups at amd as if it was their special weapon to put down a complacent and struggling intel once more. i hope it's all gold and not them faffing about with their usual bs.
 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
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arrow lake might be good
It's not.
im not one of those amd folks who think intel is dead in the water
They unfortunately are out of premium CPU game for the foreseeable future and initial Strix findings communicate as much.
arrowlake may be a good contender against zen 5
It's not.
Lion Cove is a very underwhelming design relative to the degree of changes it brings.
zen 5 has been paraded around by higher ups at amd as if it was their special weapon to put down a complacent and struggling intel once more
No, this was designed to fight sky-high expectations of 2024 Intel which didn't materialize.
Nuvia gets KIA'd as a collateral.
 
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A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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It's not.

They unfortunately are out of premium CPU game for the foreseeable future and initial Strix findings communicate as much.

It's not.
Lion Cove is a very underwhelming design relative to the degree of changes it brings.

No, this was designed to fight sky-high expectations of 2024 Intel which didn't materialize.
Nuvia gets KIA'd as a collateral.

mate i appreciate your posts but you're making bold claims without dropping a source or credentials. if you're an intel engineer you can disclose to the admin or staff who can say this guy knows what he's talking about and they'd protect you from intel. but you can't be in here like some demigod and proclaim things about intel based on some pitiful engineering sample we know nothing about including the speed.

nuvia was absorbed by qcom. dunno how they fit in here. keep the amd hype to a minimum.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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I'm sure you can squeeze at least ONE 8950X into your house
If I know anything about Mark is that he doesn't really mind but is secretly very excited to get the best of the best if it's the best of the best. I've always liked his level headed approach to business and personal hardware deployments. I personally don't have pockets as deep as him, I would if i drank less wine. you on'y live once, some like wine, some like to be tom cruise in the original top gun and flooring that motorcycle to the limits. we're built different.
 
Reactions: Tlh97

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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as of now igor and mark I'm holding off on my purchase plans. for the sole reason I can smell amd releasing a new processor series as in zen 5. very exciting times, very. I think this good news calls for a sparkling bottle to be chilled.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
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It's fine.
Conroe turning dual-core Athlons/Opterons into fine green paste back in 2006 was every bit as welcome.

Actually the difference was not that big, Intel had a full node advantage and cramed almost twice the transistor count comparatively, once AMD shrinked the Athlon to the same node they got better perf/watt.

At the time the reviews were using Bapco s Sysmark extensively but look at the Cinebench and other 3DSMax, although faster the C2D wasnt that revolutionary.

 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
3,324
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Actually the difference was not that big
Oh but it was.
Remember, C2D's had no IMC.
Intel had a full node advantage and cramed almost twice the transistor count comparatively
AMD is literally cramming every xtor ever into Zen5 to attain leadership 1t perf since they expected ginormous 1t jumps out of 2024 Intel.
but look at the Cinebench and other 3DSMax
Those are silly FP workloads, easy to game.
Real-world(tm) applications like CPU-limited gaming is where it at.
 
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