MILD is a computer hardware entertainment channel. Almost entirely speculation - but if you enjoy that, fine. Given that, what he says about v-cache is immaterial.I don't take everything from MLID as gospel. Which is where no V-Cache on Strix Halo comes from.
As some one who bought the 3950X only to upgrade to 5950X a year later, I'm not going for any early-cycle flagships anymore. Gonna wait until the final form of AM5 (9950X3D ??) before jumping in7950X3D at only $559 at MicroCenter now. Really good deal.
Is it really worth waiting for Zen5? Expectations seem to be ~20-25% better ST/MT perf at same TDP compared to Zen4. Priced at what level? $699 if perf/$ shall remain the same, and in that case no improvement in that regard. Also, you have to wait ~6 months until release.
So you’re skipping Zen4/5, and assume Zen6 (9950X3D?) will be the last on AM5? What if there’ll be a Zen7 on AM5 after that?As some one who bought the 3950X only to upgrade to 5950X a year later, I'm not going for any early-cycle flagships anymore. Gonna wait until the final form of AM5 (9950X3D ??) before jumping in
This post makes no sense. If you have an older PC or just need to upgrade now to the best option, you don't wait because in 3 or 4 years the same socket with have a better option. There's no reason to buy an older, worse, platform because the current platform will have a better option in the future.I'm just gonna wait until the final series of CPUs for the socket because there's no point in "upgrading" to another CPU on the same socket. You are just spending more money and buying more stuff unnecessarily. AM4 is not a slouch. Might as well just wait until the end of AM5 then you'll have the best possible offerings available. Also worth considering that swapping out a CPU is not a trivial upgrade, dealing with the heatsinks and thermal paste is always one of the most unpleasant parts of building PC, so further reason to avoid doing it more times than you have to.
You're gonna be dropping $2500-4000+ to build a PC to fully take advantage of Ryzen x950X so instead of paying $500-600 multiple times just do it once and make it the best possible CPU the first time you build
Also consider that once AM5 was announced, prices on 5950X started dropping rapidly. My 5950X cost less than my 3950X, even when the latter was "on sale" for ~$600. Seems safe to assume that a similar situation may unfold after the AM5 successor gets announced
It's all strictly unnecessary as long as your old system works. If you like to avoid unnecessary purchases, why bother holding out for the ultimate AM5 Zen? Hold out as long as you can.I'm just gonna wait until the final series of CPUs for the socket because there's no point in "upgrading" to another CPU on the same socket. You are just spending more money and buying more stuff unnecessarily.
Eh, it's a drop-in upgrade, and there won't be a faster 16c for AM4. It's much simpler and more cost-effective than switching to an entirely new platform with new board + RAM + who knows what else. If they need a new dGPU as well, maybe a totally new build is warranted. If not, then may as well take the incremental upgrade for another 1-2 years and wait for Zen6 (to then grab a cheap Zen5 or even Zen4). It's not a terrible strategy.But going from 3950X to 5950X is a particularly unnecessary example...
Well, I don’t see why you have to upgrade the CPU multiple times on the same socket generation just because you can.You're gonna be dropping $2500-4000+ to build a PC to fully take advantage of Ryzen x950X so instead of paying $500-600 multiple times just do it once and make it the best possible CPU the first time you build
Show me on the doll where years of being screwed over by Intel hurt you...I'm just gonna wait until the final series of CPUs for the socket because there's no point in "upgrading" to another CPU on the same socket. You are just spending more money and buying more stuff unnecessarily. AM4 is not a slouch. Might as well just wait until the end of AM5 then you'll have the best possible offerings available. Also worth considering that swapping out a CPU is not a trivial upgrade, dealing with the heatsinks and thermal paste is always one of the most unpleasant parts of building PC, so further reason to avoid doing it more times than you have to.
You're gonna be dropping $2500-4000+ to build a PC to fully take advantage of Ryzen x950X so instead of paying $500-600 multiple times just do it once and make it the best possible CPU the first time you build
Also consider that once AM5 was announced, prices on 5950X started dropping rapidly. My 5950X cost less than my 3950X, even when the latter was "on sale" for ~$600. Seems safe to assume that a similar situation may unfold after the AM5 successor gets announced
As far as waiting, depends what you currently have, how much you are hurting with your current system.7950X3D at only $559 at MicroCenter now. Really good deal.
Is it really worth waiting for Zen5? Expectations seem to be ~20-25% better ST/MT perf at same TDP compared to Zen4. Priced at what level? $699 if perf/$ shall remain the same, and in that case no improvement in that regard. Also, you have to wait ~6 months until release.
Yes, good point.As far as waiting, depends what you currently have, how much you are hurting with your current system.
If you are looking at 7950x3d, then you will probably be also looking for V-Cache version of Zen 5, which may lag by a few months, so instead of 6 months, it may be 9-12 months to get the V-Cache version of Zen 5.
AMD is quite stingy giving info on future products, pre-announcing products. Maybe even getting more stingy.Yes, good point.
Also, w.r.t. Zen5, there is not really much official info about it which complicated matters further for those who are trying to decide between Zen4 now vs wait for Zen5.
The claim about 20-25% ST/MT perf increase & same TDP & perf/watt & core count is only speculation from what I understand. I wonder when we can expect to get some official announcement from AMD with technical details. Possibly at CES2024 at around the same time as Zen4 APUs are expected to be released?
Re MT performance: In contrast, what I for one understood from this thread so far is that desktop Zen 5's MT (particularly: all-core) performance-per-Watt will only improve moderately over desktop Zen 4, but that there may be more absolute MT performance on offer by means of respectively increased power budget. Which would make sense to me, given that Zen 5 is supposedly a combination of considerably wider core architecture, an only slightly improved manufacturing node, and (on desktop) unchanged system-level tech. ST performance on the other hand would notably profit from the core architecture change alone, to a degree which should depend quite a bit on the nature of the workload. (Folks keep talking about "IPC" as if only one definite workload existed.)Is it really worth waiting for Zen5? Expectations seem to be ~20-25% better ST/MT perf at same TDP compared to Zen4.
My upgrade path was:It's all strictly unnecessary as long as your old system works. If you like to avoid unnecessary purchases, why bother holding out for the ultimate AM5 Zen? Hold out as long as you can.
But going from 3950X to 5950X is a particularly unnecessary example...
Damn it, I think I know why there is no Zen7 in the roadmap. Cause 32-core Venice CCD made by N2 process will become Zen7 which will be unveiled in 2027. By that time, DDR6 is readily available, AMD only need to redesign new IOD with 128-bit DDR6 memory bus then voila we have new platform for AM6..Trying to project from the "edge" variant of Venice to desktop Zen 6, my guess is that it will have:
- 16 core CCD, likely on N3E
- bigger CCD may give a chance to offer bigger L3 and bigger V-Cache
- From Adore leaks, it is likely that Zen 6 will be using the "elevator" enhance ring bus
- nothing said about the other Adore leak of 2 MB or 3 MB L2
- SerDes will likely be gone, but unclear if desktop will use something that looks like Active Silicon Bridge in Epyc. May be one of the RDL thingies...
- 16 core CCD is enough cores for client, I wonder if there will be 2 CCD 32 core variant
- Or if there will be client versions of the heterogeneous dies from server, such as the networking, AI or FPGA
- while not exactly desktop, the single IO die with 4 memory channels could be a perfect platform for return of HECD, without pricing being in stratosphere. Single IOD also has generous amount of PCIe Gen 5 and Gen 6 links. Maybe stars will finally re-align for revival of HEDT
- AM5 may live to Zen 6. Zen 6 staying with DDR5, and it may be possible to upgrade the PCIe links from AM5 pinout to use PCIe Gen 6. But would need a new mobo to get full functionality.
There is no desktop Zen6, it's just client.Trying to project from the "edge" variant of Venice to desktop Zen 6, my guess is that it will have:
- 16 core CCD, likely on N3E
- bigger CCD may give a chance to offer bigger L3 and bigger V-Cache
- From Adore leaks, it is likely that Zen 6 will be using the "elevator" enhance ring bus
- nothing said about the other Adore leak of 2 MB or 3 MB L2
- SerDes will likely be gone, but unclear if desktop will use something that looks like Active Silicon Bridge in Epyc. May be one of the RDL thingies...
- 16 core CCD is enough cores for client, I wonder if there will be 2 CCD 32 core variant
- Or if there will be client versions of the heterogeneous dies from server, such as the networking, AI or FPGA
- while not exactly desktop, the single IO die with 4 memory channels could be a perfect platform for return of HECD, without pricing being in stratosphere. Single IOD also has generous amount of PCIe Gen 5 and Gen 6 links. Maybe stars will finally re-align for revival of HEDT
- AM5 may live to Zen 6. Zen 6 staying with DDR5, and it may be possible to upgrade the PCIe links from AM5 pinout to use PCIe Gen 6. But would need a new mobo to get full functionality.
I’ve not followed all posts in this thread in detail, but cannot recall that such a definitive conclusion has been made. Regardless, isn’t all the discussion in this thread just speculation anyway? I’ve not seen any official info from AMD mentioning what you described.Re MT performance: In contrast, what I for one understood from this thread so far is that desktop Zen 5's MT (particularly: all-core) performance-per-Watt will only improve moderately over desktop Zen 4, but that there may be more absolute MT performance on offer by means of respectively increased power budget. Which would make sense to me, given that Zen 5 is supposedly a combination of considerably wider core architecture, an only slightly improved manufacturing node, and (on desktop) unchanged system-level tech. ST performance on the other hand would notably profit from the core architecture change alone, to a degree which should depend quite a bit on the nature of the workload. (Folks keep talking about "IPC" as if only one definite workload existed.)
Were the issues you mentioned only at CPU launch and close in time after that so they have been fixed in later BIOS updates and all the systems are now problem free, or are you still having issues with the problematic systems?My upgrade path was:
1950X -> 3900X -> 5950X -> 7950X.
The 5950X system was by far the most problem free of them all. I do appreciate the extra speed on my 7950X system, however.
(1950X - huge BIOS issues. 3900X had some BIOS issues and RAM compatibility problems, 5950X was perfect paired with the X570S Aorus Master, 7950X same as 1950X and 3900X)
Hopefully Zen 5 will be stable and problem free.
I went the same path. I had like 6 1950x systems, but they were all linux, and I had no issues. The 5950x and 7950x were windows, and no issues with either. The 3900x was also linux and trouble free.Were the issues you mentioned only at CPU launch and close in time after that so they have been fixed in later BIOS updates and all the systems are now problem free, or are you still having issues with the problematic systems?