Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Glo.]

You were the one who claimed Apple dictates the narrative for business workforce and as proof you gave an IBM survey about what their employees believe.

Maybe in USA.

Not "maybe". And not just in the USA.

Its unfortunately global reality. Maybe you are lucky enough to not live in this bubble.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Its enough starved, that the system will have even more trouble feeding even larger iGPU, without SLC.

My laptop has a 780M IGP.
There are faster LPPDR5 than just 6400.
8500 would have 32% higher BW.

P.S. There is even that LPDDr5t with up to 9600gbps

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Not "maybe". And not just in the USA.

Its unfortunately global reality. Maybe you are lucky enough to not live in this bubble.

And this is based on what?
In my company we don't have a single Mac. Everything is Windows laptop.
Ok, doesn't mean everywhere would be the same, but If you say something then at least write what is this based on.

 

[Glo.]

And this is based on what?
In my company we don't have a single Mac. Everything is Windows laptop.
Ok, doesn't mean everywhere would be the same, but If you say something then at least write what is this based on.

Based on my experience in my personal work life, my friend's life, my family's life, based on surveys, based on discussions with people I know who work for big software companies.

Macs are go to solution in 80% cases there.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Based on my experience in my personal work life, my friend's life, my family's life, based on surveys, based on discussions with people I know who work for big software companies.

Macs are go to solution in 80% cases there.

I can write the same about Windows laptops here in Europe.

BTW Apple has only about 10% market share of the shipped laptops.

 

[Glo.]

I can write the same about Windows laptops here in Europe.

I am talking about Europe, as well .

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I am talking about Europe, as well .

Apple has only about 10% market share of the shipped laptops. So It can hardly be dominant system in corporate as you want me to believe.

edit: True, let's end It.

 

[Glo.]

We are derailing this thread. EOT.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

4070 laptops are barely under 2000 in my region...just hope its priced appropriately since it also does sound like how AMD GPUs are generally priced as well

I highly doubt that appropriate price.
And RDNA4 will be also out even before Strix Halo.
Strix Point + RDNA4 could end up as a better option for gaming.

 

[FlameTail]

In games that have native versions for Mac, and windows, like World of Warcraft, M2 Max is equivalent to 4060 desktop.

We are talking about real world games performance.

The issue with that is the game selection is limited, no?

Also gaming performance depends on both the CPU and GPU.

I am more interested in comparing the raw performance of the GPU, and a cross-platform benchmark like 3DMark WLE allows that.

 

[FlameTail]

Not "maybe". And not just in the USA.

Its unfortunately global reality. Maybe you are lucky enough to not live in this bubble.

Kek. In my country, this statement couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[S'renne]

I highly doubt that appropriate price.
And RDNA4 will be also out even before Strix Halo.
Strix Point + RDNA4 could end up as a better option for gaming.

I mean it is the price in Malaysia

 

[Markfw]

Not "maybe". And not just in the USA.

Its unfortunately global reality. Maybe you are lucky enough to not live in this bubble.

Actually, I have to disagree. it depends on the TYPE of work. Those that use laptops/desktops in an office env, its windows. For certain audio/video work, I bet its APPLE.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I mean it is the price in Malaysia

I am talking about Strix Halo in this case.
And It won't have comparable price to that laptop you posted, which has only an Zen4 8 core CPU.

 

[Philste]

My laptop has a 780M IGP.
There are faster LPPDR5 than just 6400.
8500 would have 32% higher BW.

Computerbase measured an incredible 7-8% uplift going From DDR5-5200 to DDR5-7200 on the 8700G.

If RDNA3.5 doesn't change something about bandwidth usage I could see Lunar Lake coming close or even trashing Strix in iGPU perfomance while being a whole power tier lower. I don't see Strix being any faster than Phoenix with same RAM. Meanwhile Lunar Lake has at least 8MB SLC and the iGPU probably has additional L2 as well. And memory is on package, so LPDDR5x-8533 is guaranteed.

 

[Abwx]

My laptop has a 780M IGP.
There are faster LPPDR5 than just 6400.
8500 would have 32% higher BW.

P.S. There is even that LPDDr5t with up to 9600gbps

What is curious is that the 38% higher bandwith result in only 7-8% better perf for the 780M of a 8700G that is not power constrained, so there something more than RAM bandwith at play here, likely that the CPU cache has a comparable footprints.

AMD Ryzen 8700G & 8600G im Test: Gaming, Multimedia, Apps: AMD Ryzen 8000G im Überblick

Ryzen 7 8700G & 5 8600G (OC) im Test: AMD Ryzen 8000G im Überblick / Überblick: AMD Ryzen 8000G „Phoenix“ im Desktop

www.computerbase.de

Edit : Seems that someone just pointed the issue at Computerbase...

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Computerbase measured an incredible 7-8% uplift going From DDR5-5200 to DDR5-7200 on the 8700G.

38.5% higher BW and you gain only 7-8% of performance.

If RDNA3.5 doesn't change something about bandwidth usage I could see Lunar Lake coming close or even trashing Strix in iGPU perfomance while being a whole power tier lower. I don't see Strix being any faster than Phoenix with same RAM. Meanwhile Lunar Lake has at least 8MB SLC and the iGPU probably has additional L2 as well. And memory is on package, so LPDDR5x-8533 is guaranteed.

Why would anyone pair Strix Point with only 6400mbps memory?
I also don't understand your point in comparing Strix Point vs Lunar Lake, where one is BW constrained while the other is not.

 

[yuri69]

And this is based on what?
In my company we don't have a single Mac. Everything is Windows laptop.
Ok, doesn't mean everywhere would be the same, but If you say something then at least write what is this based on.

In high-GDP coutries (US, West EU, China?) Macs are usually used by developers for a simple reason - Windows don't feature Bash (WSL not counted). The rest of the world uses a mix of Mac/Linux/Windows.

Windows is drifting towards entertainment systems filled with ads. The interaction with Windows 11 is straight up horrible. Besides, Windows 12 are going to throw AI gimmicks into the mix.

* Popups like: Edge, have you considered Edge? No? But do you now?
* The awful Start thing - hitting the WinKey, typing "my app", Enter => a browser with Bing searching for "my app" gets opened even though the "my app" has been present but it wasn't indexed or something.
* Silent background Updates slowing down the machine during work hours. Cool
* Windows Active Protection/Defender/whatever scanning every single file being open. Working with Git, Python, Node, etc. - many small files - means you gotta disable like half of your filesystem from Defender.
* Windows Updates overriding 3rd party installed drivers. Having that compatible ICC profile, docking station firmware/drivers, GFX drivers version installed? Not anymore!
* Wanna set a simple environment variable? Cool, navigate yourself through 4 clickable nested things.
* Random Edge/MSN stuff in your Start thing popping up
* Restarts... the restarts
* Any attempt to automate your daily things still feels like XP-era even with the obnoxious PowerShell and 3rd party utils...

Everybody needs to work productively - comfortably use one or more applications to achive their goals - without being annoyed by the OS. The Mac/Linux experience is usually way less intrusive compared to Windows.

Windows is usually still prevasive at several kinds of shops:
* ultra low budget - "we can't afford Macs" and/or IT is managed by a single person or no IT at all
* app based - using a mission-critical Windows-only app - engineering, etc.
* bulletproof corporate IT - the IT dept holds a very tight grip over the devices - even the wallpapers are set by a corporate policy

 

[igor_kavinski]

Meanwhile Lunar Lake has at least 8MB SLC and the iGPU probably has additional L2 as well. And memory is on package, so LPDDR5x-8533 is guaranteed.

I don't expect LNL iGPU to beat the base M3 iGPU vastly.

Mobile Graphics Cards - Benchmark List

Sort and filter through all currently available mobile graphics cards by performance or specification.

www.notebookcheck.net

8-core M3 GPU perf rating is not listed there but let's assume it's 40 and LNL beats it with maybe 50?



Geforce 2050 mobile will beat the LNL iGPU easily.



Strix Halo > 4060 mobile (with hands tied behind its back most likely)

LNL just won't have the power available to be competitive against Strix Halo since it's geared more towards low power laptops with all day battery life.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Everybody needs to work productively - comfortably use one or more applications to achive their goals - without being annoyed by the OS. The Mac/Linux experience is usually way less intrusive compared to Windows.

You did prove one thing with your post.

Us Windows chaps have a very high threshold of patience to Windows' annoyances. But yes, if Windows 12 proves to be even more annoying and distracting with its attempts to "help" users, most people will find alternatives or stick with Windows 10 for as long as possible until Microsoft gets the hint or loses its market share. It's like the Windows 8 fiasco didn't teach them ANYTHING.

 

[rainy]

No chances .

780M is already HEAVILY bandwidth starved. Let alone a GPU with 33% more ALUs, and zero SLC.

Then what is purpose of Radeon 880M?
To be even more limited by memory bandwidth?

 

[jpiniero]

Then what is purpose of Radeon 880M?
To be even more limited by memory bandwidth?

It would be more power efficient to have extra CUs and lower clocks.

 

[rainy]

It would be more power efficient to have extra CUs and lower clocks.

Somehow it would be strange, if the only purpose of 880M is better efficiency and not higher performance also.

 

[SteinFG]

Then what is purpose of Radeon 880M?
To be even more limited by memory bandwidth?

depends on LPDDR clocks. 8840HS can run at 7500 MT/s, if Strix can run LPDDR memory at ~10000, it's gonna be fine

 

[jpiniero]

Somehow it would be strange, if the only purpose of 880M is better efficiency and not higher performance also.

Presumably it'd lead to higher performance at low power levels.