Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,019
10,339
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Strix Point is much worse than I expected.

No point waiting for cheap Kraken Point when they'll only be ~10% better compared to existing 7/8000 laptops. Actually since it's 4+4 it might be worse in MT.

It may be able to offer better efficiency. That seems to have been a focus for Zen 5 on mobile.
 
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Josh128

Senior member
Oct 14, 2022
272
391
96
From Phoronix's 100+ Linux benchmark test:

These initial Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 results have me super excited for Zen 5. It's different having AMD shipping their next-gen laptop SoCs ahead of the desktop processors, but in a few weeks attention will turn to the Ryzen 9000 series. I've been pushing the limits of this SoC in being eager to test Zen 5, so stay tuned for more articles ahead of the Ryzen 9000 series launch. The generational performance uplift is nice with Zen 5 but really captivating my interest has been the large power efficiency gains at least among these laptop SoCs. The Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 also furthers its lead over Intel Meteor Lake that makes an even larger hill for Lunar Lake to climb, which will be interesting to see how that battle goes later in the quarter.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,514
4,299
136
Bit strange. Perhaps it's M3 Max mislabelled as M3.

Whatever it is that s still an impossible curve, there s no CPU whose perf increase linearly with power, that s against the laws of physics.

This and the fact that the 8945H gain only 10-12% perf from 35W to 70W lead me to think that this guy has no clue about power mesurements methodologies.

Same as NBC who put the 370 at same perf/watt in ST than a 185H, yet Computerbase measure 40-50% more power for the 185H in Cinebench ST at 28W while the 370 hoover at 18-20W.

Edit : There s a pic of the die at Bilibili, die size is 225.64mm2 :


 
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ryanjagtap

Member
Sep 25, 2021
132
153
96
Splitting core to 2 different CCXs really hurt performance. Still don't understand why they did it, it seems that doing one 8-core hybrid CCX solution would have been better alternative.
Yup. I thought the same. They even made a 7545U/8540U with 2+4c config with unified cache. Could have done something like that for efficiency rather than doing this.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,019
10,339
136
Whatever it is that s still an impossible curve, there s no CPU whose perf increase linearly with power, that s against the laws of physics.

This and the fact that the 8945H gain only 10-12% perf from 35W to 70W lead me to think that this guy has no clue about power mesurements methodologies.

Same as NBC who put the 370 at same perf/watt in ST than a 185H, yet Computerbase measure 40-50% more power for the 185H in Cinebench ST at 28W while the 370 hoover at 18-20W.

Edit : There s a pic of the die at Bilibili, die size is 225.64mm2 :



NBC does power and perf/watt measurements for the whole system, which greatly obscures the differences in SoC power/efficiency.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,746
2,184
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The fact that a single CCX can only support upto 8 cores seems to be a problem for AMD. More cores would require another CCX, and a seperate L3 block. Perhaps they should work on larger CCXes, or even do a rework of their core cluster hierarchy?

For comparison, the ARM DSU-120 can support upto 14 cores in a single cluster, with a single block of L3 cache.
 
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gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,829
4,190
136
The fact that a single CCX can only support upto 8 cores seems to be a problem for AMD. More cores would require another CCX, and a seperaye L3 block. Perhaps they should work on larger CCXes, or even do a rework of their core cluster hierarchy?
That is what Zen 6 is to solve, I guess.
In Bergamo/TurinD it isn't a significant competitive disadvantage but it seems to be a problem here.
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,019
10,339
136
The fact that a single CCX can only support upto 8 cores seems to be a problem for AMD. More cores would require another CCX, and a seperate L3 block. Perhaps they should work on larger CCXes, or even do a rework of their core cluster hierarchy?

For comparison, the ARM DSU-120 can support upto 14 cores in a single cluster, with a single block of L3 cache.

Increasing the cores per CCX has very real latency, complexity, and power consequences. X Elite cores are clustered in groups of 4 for a reason.
 

MarkPost

Senior member
Mar 1, 2017
294
526
136
From Phoronix's 100+ Linux benchmark test:

These initial Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 results have me super excited for Zen 5. It's different having AMD shipping their next-gen laptop SoCs ahead of the desktop processors, but in a few weeks attention will turn to the Ryzen 9000 series. I've been pushing the limits of this SoC in being eager to test Zen 5, so stay tuned for more articles ahead of the Ryzen 9000 series launch. The generational performance uplift is nice with Zen 5 but really captivating my interest has been the large power efficiency gains at least among these laptop SoCs. The Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 also furthers its lead over Intel Meteor Lake that makes an even larger hill for Lunar Lake to climb, which will be interesting to see how that battle goes later in the quarter.
From the same review, I think this is a great achievement:

Where things got really interesting with the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 was the power efficiency of this Zen 5 laptop SoC. Across the span of all the benchmarks, the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 SoC was pulling about 20.4 Watts with a peak of 34.2 Watts.... Meanwhile the Ryzen 7 7840HS had an average of 35 Watts and a peak of 60 Watts. The Ryzen 7 7840U had a 27 Watt average and a peak of 51 Watts. The Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 came out faster than those parts while consuming significantly less power. This Zen 5 power efficiency is very exciting and should carry over for desktop and server parts too. Meanwhile the Core Ultra 7 155H was consuming 29.6 Watts on average with a peak of 65 Watts.
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,019
10,339
136
Unless it's an M3 Max 16-core. The idiot didn't specify in the graph.

I watched the video and the top most point for the M3 is indeed an M3 Max. I won't be too harsh on them as this was part of a live stream review, but they really should clean up their presentation, even if you explain it in the video. Basically, the data points with lines in them means they could directly control the max power draw (M3 being the exception). The individual dots means that they couldn't control the power draw and are relying on the power profiles to set the power draw, which means that it's a bit more of an estimate. The biggest difference is that the M3 data is really the M3 family data and each data point is a separate SoC with more cores as you go up in power consumption, which explains the seemingly impossible perf/w curve.

Edit: Here's the graph with added M3 CPU info (I'm guessing on the M3 Pro variants).

 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,514
4,299
136
Unless it's an M3 Max 16-core. The idiot didn't specify in the graph.

If all cores are functional at all powers it s still impossible, even if it were perfect transistors the scaling should be such that perf increase as a square root of power, so 2x the score mean at least 4x the power, 1.41x the perf mandate 2x the power.

FI at NBC the Asus Pro Art score 41% better in CB R23 than the Zenbook wich is around 30W, so the former use something like 65-70W.

Edit : On a side note :


 
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Philste

Senior member
Oct 13, 2023
248
442
96
FI at NBC the Asus Pro Art score 41% better in CB R23 than the Zenbook wich is around 30W, so the former use something like 65-70W.
Everything is really weird. In NBCs Zenbook S16 Review, there is a Cinebench 2024 result (1099 points) of ProArt, which isn't in the ProArt test itself. 1099 is only 10% higher than Computerbase result of 33W Version.
 
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