Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

Page 42 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
4,384
2,754
106
I wonder how is AMD going to feed 24 Zen6 cores on Granite Ridge.

LPDDR6?

Big SLC on IOD?
 

yuri69

Senior member
Jul 16, 2013
601
1,056
136
Would the dividing line be monolithic vs. chiplet? Where chiplet parts get the full functinality?

From the MLID description, these are all still aiming quite high end parts in the notebook space:
- Medusa Halo
- Medusa Point
Probably in top 10-25%, by price.

For desktop, full die would definitely be desirable.

And in more cost conscious laptop segments, served by monolithic parts, AMD could reduce L3 and AVX-512 width.
Lineup based on chiplet-based APU featuring 12 * P-cores sounds weird.

WTF 2026/2027 mobile lineup:
* high-TDP desktop replacement with X3D - Fire Range next - Zen 6 1-2 * 12P
* premium GPU performance - Medusa Halo - Zen 6 12P + large GPU
* premium APU - Medusa Point - Zen 6 12P + small GPU
* regular APU - a refresh of 2026 Strix Point refresh - Zen 5
* cheap APU - a refresh of 2026 Hawk Point refresh or Sonoma Valley - Zen 4 or Zen 5

It doesn't feel right. There surely are dies featuring E-cores too.
 

techjunkie123

Member
May 1, 2024
125
251
96
It doesn't feel right. There surely are dies featuring E-cores too.
E-cores (C-cores or sense cores) only make sense on server where clock speeds are limited by TDP.

Even on mobile, C cores offer similar performance per watt as the regular cores (as David Huangs tests have shown), and actually worse or comparable performance per area. The reason for this is that the clockspeed reduction is greater than the area reduction.

There will be low power cores (not C cores) on the APU main dies, presumably, for idle purposes.
 

desrever

Senior member
Nov 6, 2021
272
727
106
E-cores (C-cores or sense cores) only make sense on server where clock speeds are limited by TDP.

Even on mobile, C cores offer similar performance per watt as the regular cores (as David Huangs tests have shown), and actually worse or comparable performance per area. The reason for this is that the clockspeed reduction is greater than the area reduction.

There will be low power cores (not C cores) on the APU main dies, presumably, for idle purposes.
The e/c cores are to reduce silicon cost. We will see them on desktop eventually from AMD as well.

I don't expect 12 full zen 6 cores per CCD, would be a pleasant surprise tho.
 
Reactions: Tlh97

Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
266
292
96
Even on mobile, C cores offer similar performance per watt as the regular cores (as David Huangs tests have shown), and actually worse or comparable performance per area. The reason for this is that the clockspeed reduction is greater than the area reduction.
No? one is very power limited on mobile (Laptop), so a P core being able to reach 5GHz is meaningless in decently multithreaded workloads, as that would consume too much power at the power limit.

You have your P cores for single or lightly threaded applications, where you can clock them very high and still be inside the power limit window. But, I don't see how 12 P cores instead of, say, 6 P cores and 6 c cores is useful at all for very paralel workloads, unless we are approaching 80W power limit maybe.

Performance per area advantage is meaningless in MT power limited scenario.
 

techjunkie123

Member
May 1, 2024
125
251
96


The e/c cores are to reduce silicon cost. We will see them on desktop eventually from AMD as well.

I don't expect 12 full zen 6 cores per CCD, would be a pleasant surprise tho.
Doesn't make sense to put C cores on client desktop IMO. TDP is basically unlimited.

12 Z6 cores/CCD should be doable on N3, as others have said.
No? one is very power limited on mobile (Laptop), so a P core being able to reach 5GHz is meaningless in decently multithreaded workloads, as that would consume too much power at the power limit.

You have your P cores for single or lightly threaded applications, where you can clock them very high and still be inside the power limit window. But, I don't see how 12 P cores instead of, say, 6 P cores and 6 c cores is useful at all for very paralel workloads, unless we are approaching 80W power limit maybe.

Performance per area advantage is meaningless in MT power limited scenario.
Yes, actually. Not 5 GHz MT, but around 4.5 GHz is doable with 60-80W TDP (typical windows laptop TDP). Versus 3 GHz-ish on C cores.

4.5/3 = +50% performance per core, full vs dense.
1/0.75 = -33% area, full vs dense.

Full is at the very least comparable to dense on mobile.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,678
15,735
136
Lineup based on chiplet-based APU featuring 12 * P-cores sounds weird.

WTF 2026/2027 mobile lineup:
* high-TDP desktop replacement with X3D - Fire Range next - Zen 6 1-2 * 12P
* premium GPU performance - Medusa Halo - Zen 6 12P + large GPU
* premium APU - Medusa Point - Zen 6 12P + small GPU
* regular APU - a refresh of 2026 Strix Point refresh - Zen 5
* cheap APU - a refresh of 2026 Hawk Point refresh or Sonoma Valley - Zen 4 or Zen 5

It doesn't feel right. There surely are dies featuring E-cores too.
Big difference. Intel E-cores are totally different than P cores, and capability and speed.

AMD c cores are simply a compact smaller size core, a little less speed and a little less cache, but capability is identical.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Thibsie

LightningZ71

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2017
2,020
2,455
136
Keep in mind, these early generation "c" aren't being fully realized without things like "fin-flex". Strix Point and Phoenix used the exact same libraries for their transistors. The notable difference between the P and C cores was reduced buffer space around critical paths and far fewer transistors and other circuitry being used to boost achievable clock speed. Going forward, things like fin-flex will allow for greater PPA differentiation between the two types.
 

Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
266
292
96



Doesn't make sense to put C cores on client desktop IMO. TDP is basically unlimited.

12 Z6 cores/CCD should be doable on N3, as others have said.

Yes, actually. Not 5 GHz MT, but around 4.5 GHz is doable with 60-80W TDP (typical windows laptop TDP). Versus 3 GHz-ish on C cores.

4.5/3 = +50% performance per core, full vs dense.
1/0.75 = -33% area, full vs dense.

Full is at the very least comparable to dense on mobile.

So yeah high TDP like I said.
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
2,790
4,109
106
The e/c cores are to reduce silicon cost. We will see them on desktop eventually from AMD as well.

I don't expect 12 full zen 6 cores per CCD, would be a pleasant surprise tho.

Well, some people, namely @Kepler_L2 and @adroc_thurston said that 12 cores can fit in 75mm2 die without having to reduce AVX-512 or L3 (using N3).

Then, why do you think they would need to go with the dense cores?
 

Win2012R2

Senior member
Dec 5, 2024
647
609
96
And you'd pay for that right? Over a grand?
A grand - no problems (and both chiplets better be same high quality!), can't see why it should cost more when 9800x3d is $479. I had to disable one non-3D chiplet on 7950x3d to get the perf I expected, so half the money wasted.

I can see only two good reasons for AMD not to offer it -
1) they'd rather have 2 happy customers with 9800x3d than 1
2) highly clocked 16 core with so much cache might work as a very nice cheap server part and thus compete with their overpriced Epycs that offer extra cache by virtue of having lots of chiplets with 32 MB each

I'd most likely still buy single cache 9950x3d but only if 3D chiplet clocks better than 9800x3d.
 
Last edited:

Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
3,283
5,389
136
A grand - no problems (and both chiplets better be same high quality!), can't see why it should cost more when 9800x3d is $479. I had to disable one non-3D chiplet on 7950x3d to get the perf I expected, so half the money wasted.

I can see only two good reasons for AMD not to offer it -
1) they'd rather have 2 happy customers with 9800x3d than 1
2) highly clocked 16 core with so much cache might work as a very nice cheap server part and thus compete with their overpriced Epycs that offer extra cache by virtue of having lots of chiplets with 32 MB each

I'd most likely still buy single cache 9950x3d but only if 3D chiplet clocks better than 9800x3d.

Overpriced Epyc? They are selling in droves. Clearly people think they are worth the money.
 

Win2012R2

Senior member
Dec 5, 2024
647
609
96
Overpriced Epyc? They are selling in droves. Clearly people think they are worth the money.

Totally - hyperscalers who never pay anywhere near the list price!

And yes it is overpriced - where is me cheap and cheerful 64 single socket cores that are very near same clock as much more expensive dual socket ones...
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,770
1,475
136
Everybody seems to be talking about the CCDs, but what about the IOD?

MLID said the Medusa Point IOD is about 200 mm², and made on N4 iirc.

That sounds somewhat dubious, because that's very large. For comparison, Strix Point is a monolithic 232 mm² N4 die.

Then Medusa Point would be 200 mm² N4 for IOD + 70 mm² N3 for CCD. That would be equivalent to about 300 mm² of N4 silicon, which is a 30% increase from Strix Point.

Even more dubiously, MLID claims that Medusa Point will have a 16 CU GPU. I suppose it depends on whether it's RDNA3.5 or UDNA.

If it's UDNA, then 16 CUs might be enough to compete against Panther Lake's 12 Xe3 GPU. If it's RDNA3.5, then 24 CUs might be needed. That would also explain why the IOD is so large.

To be fair there are a million and one things that could be eating up IOD space. Infinity cache, wider memory controller, bigger NPU (this one is almost a certainty), LP cores, etc.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |