I don't know the reasons why, but th OS is significantly slower on windows than linux over many of the apps I use, mostly DC(distributed computing) applications and F@H using video.
I don't know the reasons why, but th OS is significantly slower on windows than linux over many of the apps I use, mostly DC(distributed computing) applications and F@H using video.Here is where I would disagree. Operating Systems do not make a difference to the CPU IPC nor to its performance drastically. Macs when on Intel had the exact same IPC and performance as macOS when the CPUs were tested on Windows on the same Mac.
Likewise on Linux vs Windows. If a CPU is slower on Windows than Linux it’s because optimisation or a special flag is turned on Linux. Inherently, barring Linux distros that optimise for Zen. Operating systems do not make a difference. I mean I daily drive Windows 11 and CachyOS and there’s barely any noticeable performance difference.
No ones telling to switch to Apple. Most who mention others like RISC-V or ARM are saying it’s not the end of the road for single threaded performance for x86. After all if ISA doesn’t matter, then x86 still has major growth.
My mom drives slower than me. My car would get slower with my mom driving. HP doesn't matter, you are comparing km/h in this case.Saying that IPC is reduced by the operating system is like saying that my car's horsepower goes down when your mom gets in. The power isn't reduced, there's just a heavier load so it goes slower.
But the OS is not making the CPU slower per se (unless the OS will disable HT like BSD for security for some CPUs, still the CPU is not slower, it has functions disabled but if you disable them in other OS then well, they will match).I don't know the reasons why, but th OS is significantly slower on windows than linux over many of the apps I use, mostly DC(distributed computing) applications and F@H using video.
I noticed when we ported some CVE patches to our Zen 2 dev clusters, performance difference between the Zen 2 and Zen 4 clusters was very large than what I would expect. We rolled back the patches and it was more less what you would get with cumulative perf uplift promised by AMD.You make a valid point. But I guess Windows can do such things to, no? I'd expect all OS to have very similar sets of mitigations, though I might be wrong.
The last Phoronix article measuring mitigation on Zen 5 showed basically no difference:
Their cores perform exceptionally well when benchmarked on Linux.I don't think Apple M runs Windows with very good IPC, right?. I don't give two sh*ts about Apple and their confounding and restrictive OS. It's great for some people, but not me. I like to be able to "get in the box" and run literally millions of apps from yesterday and 50 years ago. Windows runs everything.. from apps designed by hundreds of highly qualified engineers to smart kids in their basements. Apple is East Berlin before the wall came down. Everything is controlled and set up for Apple. x86 has to do it all. Yes, freedom is harder to lock down for optimizing. Apple? No thanks.
In addition, this is a Zen 6 thread.
What do you mean client workloads don't matter? Client was over 25% percent of AMD's 2024 revenue.
And from the patent trail from last quarter you'd imagine AMD is a packaging specialist than CPU designer. Not good. Typically patent trail is good indicator of active research in novel ideas but not since last two quarters unfortunately. At least not much applications in core design.And chances are, AMD client CPU revenue will surpass datacenter CPU revenue again this year.
5% IPC ST increase and better MT will be better than what is available now and people seem to be getting along with their consumer workloads just fine. I don't understand your statement.If they both fail that hard they simply will not be competitive for consumer workloads.
People, especially younger ones, already tend to use their phones as their main computing device. If phones start beating laptops in consumer workloads, then the whole segment will fade into irrelevance (DT already did).5% IPC ST increase and better MT will be better than what is available now and people seem to be getting along with their consumer workloads just fine. I don't understand your statement.
The reality is there is no other x86 manufacturer to turn to.
Good point about when Apple was on x86 and they didn't seem to have an OS-App tie performance advantage. Hadn't thought of that.Here is where I would disagree. Operating Systems do not make a difference to the CPU IPC nor to its performance drastically. Macs when on Intel had the exact same IPC and performance as macOS when the CPUs were tested on Windows on the same Mac.
Likewise on Linux vs Windows. If a CPU is slower on Windows than Linux it’s because optimisation or a special flag is turned on Linux. Inherently, barring Linux distros that optimise for Zen. Operating systems do not make a difference. I mean I daily drive Windows 11 and CachyOS and there’s barely any noticeable performance difference.
No ones telling to switch to Apple. Most who mention others like RISC-V or ARM are saying it’s not the end of the road for single threaded performance for x86. After all if ISA doesn’t matter, then x86 still has major growth.
Yes as I replied to poke01 that is a good point against my argument. I must admit.Their cores perform exceptionally well when benchmarked on Linux.
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Current x86 cores are just bad client cores, plain and simple. In what world it is acceptable for a laptop core to be gapped by a phone (the iPhone, to be precise) in running browsers.
Servers and legacy will need x86 and gaming (PS5, Xbox)There will be no need for x86.
Mobile gaming has already surpassed PC/console gaming in revenue. And hardcore gamers are much more loyal to Huang's gigarays than they are to CPU manufacturers, so all it takes for them to be put into a very precarious position is for Huang to come up with a decent ARM SoC (which they're working on with Mediatek).Servers and legacy will need x86 and gaming (PS5, Xbox)
Plus on desktop, x86 is the only platform where it’s upgradable.
Casinos are not video games.Mobile gaming has already surpassed PC/console gaming in revenue
They are not getting along just fine. Outside of the server space sales are down.5% IPC ST increase and better MT will be better than what is available now and people seem to be getting along with their consumer workloads just fine. I don't understand your statement.
The reality is there is no other x86 manufacturer to turn to.
?Outside of the server space sales are down.
They'll run out of shrinks like everyone else.Their competition delivers every year
And yet they're pulling away since x86 peaked with Zen 3 and hasn't kept up since.They'll run out of shrinks like everyone else.
Can ship a 5GHz core once!
Zen4 was a major fmax bump too!And yet they're pulling away since x86 peaked with Zen 3 and hasn't kept up since.
and who is this magical competitor that is pulling away. You never answered my last post either. Are you just trolling ?And yet they're pulling away since x86 peaked with Zen 3 and hasn't kept up since.
You know who it is. Stop pretending that just because they're a lifestyle company they can't make good CPUs.and who is this magical competitor that is pulling away. You never answered my last post either. Are you just trolling ?
In theory no, but Zen is like 10-20% faster on Linux.IPC is not a property related in any way to the OS!
"PC is dying" is a 20-year old trope and never been true. In fact latest research shows the largest growth market for things like gaming is PC.People, especially younger ones, already tend to use their phones as their main computing device. If phones start beating laptops in consumer workloads, then the whole segment will fade into irrelevance (DT already did).
There will be no need for x86.
PC has, despite all the hate over many years, continually increased performance. And so it had the highest available performance for over 20 years. Until it was finally passed in 2024. If - like Hulk is saying - 5% after 2 years is the best they can ship do you think it can still retain its relevance?"PC is dying" is a 20-year old trope and never been true. In fact latest research shows the largest growth market for things like gaming is PC.