Review Zen4 3D review thread

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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Thread to focus on Zen4 3D cache CPUs.

New gaming king (as most expected), though the 2 CCD 7950x3d does seem to have issues with some games, more than I would expect of it getting stuck on the "wrong" CCD. I imagine it will get cleared up with subsequent updates but we'll see. Simulated 7800X3D showed no such issues and overall has the gaming lead (real product might be slightly slower though depending on in game clocks).


Computerbase also has the 7950x3d as the gaming champ. They (and TPU) also show that efficiency while gaming is extremely good.







Just to toot my own horn a little, it landed spot on with my prediction of fastest gaming CPU but not significantly so over a 13900k on average, but with much higher efficiency.

Additional reviews, will add more later.

Gamers Nexus
 
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Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
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Alright so, a bit of update on the things I've done so far:

1) Tried to temper with AMD's Ryzen Master tool to activate PBO from there (was On, in the BIOS, but showed as Off in Master... more weird things, right? Why not).

2) The above failed, just trying to activate PBO from Ryzen Master required a Reboot, which I did. That Reboot failed, the Motherboard gave me an orange LED RAM-related warning. I cleared the CMOS, and a RED LED light warning popped that time around (CPU-related warning). I had prepared a portable USB device with the previous ASUS Rog Strix BIOS on it just in case, version 0805 (latest one, the one I had was version 0922). So I used that with the BIOS Flashback button, and proceeded to update the BIOS that way (thus removing version 0922, moving 'back' to 0805 even though I never tried to use the board at all with that specific BIOS). That worked, but the Booting process takes as long as it did with my 0922 anyways (takes about 15 seconds before I see the main BIOS screen pop, and then the rest goes).

3) The above done, proceeded to the BIOS options, Loaded Optimized Defaults (before doing anything in it), then restarted. Worked. Went back into the BIOS, and ONLY did a SINGLE thing, which was to set my Memory speed to specifications via using the EXPO1 prefix. It worked.

4) Now, with BIOS 0805 and only EXPO1 for the Memory, proceeded to Windows.

5) Got to Windows, opened HWINFO to check on the Cores... and it reported HALF my Cores were "missing" (grayed out in the list, nothing for Half of them). Task Manager also told me I suddenly had 6 Cores, 12 Threads, same with AIDA64. A moment of 'panic' kicked in but I started to wonder if it was just Software-based errors of sensor reads and that kind of thing. After some research, turns out that for some reason under the MSconfig window, under 'Boot' options (Advanced), there number of Cores was selected (checked). I apparently had to uncheck that (maybe AMD Ryzen Master created that problem when I tried to activate PBO from it before all the crap hit the fans... dunno, can't tell for sure). So anyways, it was the problem, unchecked that option in MSconfig, rebooted, and then it was fine, 12 Cores and 24 Threads reported everywhere. Alright, could breath again.

6) THEN... went back to BIOS, and simply Enabled (from 'Auto) PBO, but I'm now seeing weird speed behaviors in gaming Vs staying in the Desktop.

HWINFO Core speed reports for:

While being in-game (Cyberpunk 2077)


Half the cores (while in Cyberpunk) pretty much stay between 3.7Ghz to around 4.3Ghz (that's a big no no for me, didn't pay for a 7900X3D to see half of the thing powering down below minimum default specs while gaming)

While being in the Desktop (no game running in the background)


But all the Cores speeds get back on a more 'regular' speed range... while idling in the Desktop. Go figure... at this point I really don't know what to think of all this.

Right now I'm thinking only a few things are left for me to check out.

#1 Try to increase the vCore a little bit, small increments (might also have to adjust the Pins on the Motherboard, there's a Pin that's currently defaulted-placed to avoid Overclock voltages; maybe that thing actually blocks the auto-boosting from behaving normally; so that's part of the 'to-do' list probably, last card scenario).

#2 Leaving everything in the BIOS back to default, and only using Ryzen Master, maybe (but considering I tried to use it and it crapped my Booting process previously... I have a fear of even re-installing that thing now)

#3 Buying a new Cooler entirely... not impossible, sure I can. Do I want to? Not sure, what if my issues are actually related to a somewhat-faulty CPU? Or even a faulty Motherboard? I don't even know yet.

#4 I'll play the "stay patient" card for now, I'll try a few other things. But if 'nothing' works (beyond the point where I basically need to re-buy some components, if not all of them) then I'll keep the system as-is for now (since, overall, it IS stable when gaming, and despite the issues I do have, it's still an upgrade from what I had previously) and possibly consider buying new components eventually (a few months down the line).

I've been building my own computers since pretty much 2004, 19 years into it. I've built first from I believe Intel Pentium 3 (or maybe it was 4), going into AMD Athlon 64, then back to Intel, then AMD again with their first gen Ryzen. I've been using ASUS Motherboards of all quality ranges, along with some ASRock ones, and been through ATi and NVIDIA cards... not to mention Windows 2000, Windows XP, Vista, 7, 10 and now 11. Throughout all of those years, I can genuinely say that the combination of multiple issues I'm getting with this specific new system is a complete first for me.

The only "major" issues I ever encountered before was around the early 2010s when my Motherboard at the time simply didn't support a specific kit of RAM I bought, and the system just didn't POST regardless of what I tried to do, I had to bring the Motherboard to a local PC store where the Tech guy checked and confirmed the problem was Memory incompatibility. That's it. Beyond that one instance back then, it's the first time I truly experience a 'wild ride' with new components. And, of course, it had to be happening in a time when prices are sky-rocketing. Just really bad timing. Anyways, I'll keep checking for a few extra things. Maybe I'll also wait until ASUS update the BIOS (God only knows when, between version 0805 and 0922 there's basically 2 months of waiting; not sure if my system will even last 2 months from the looks of things).
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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@Zenoth What is your GPU usage in Cyberpunk? I am only CPU limited when I am running several scripts and AI mods. When I am GPU limited, my CPU will clock itself down in Cyberpunk.

I am not sure if Cyberpunk can run across 2 CCD’s. I see 6 cores loaded in that screenshot. That is a 6+6 chip.

The 7950X3D I am playing around will incrementally clock down after 80C in heavy MT loads.

Inside HWiNFO set the poll rate down to 50 ms and run a game. You should see it boost across all 6 cores in game.
 
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Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
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Alright so, I think I'm 'calling it a night' on my tests. I believe I've done all I could have, and as of now I think I've reached what I would consider an 'acceptable' overall system operation (I.E. how the frequencies behave based on what I do, which apps I use, games I use, etc; and based on the temperatures while I do those things, just overall system operation).

Thanks, by the way guys, to all who offered some guidance on this. I appreciate.

So the things I've done (and re-done).

#1: I observed that with the 'previous' BIOS version (0805, which I was using since my latest trials) the general Performance (synthetic benchmarks and gaming) was significantly lower. It's not for no reasons why it is often recommended to update BIOSes (although... not always of course, when it's unstable crap hits the fan). In fact, the general performance gap I was seeing while on 0805 was so significant on benchmark scores, FPSes in games AND overall 'boost' frequencies (much lower-than-expected from specs) that I decided to just 'revert back' (or rather, forward) to the latest version, 0922... again.

#2: Related to the above, with BIOS version 0805 I noticed that my very long " POST--to-BIOS-with-all-Motherboard-LED-Warning-Lights-Possible " issue STILL existed anyway. I believed, originally, that perhaps BIOS version 0922 was - maybe - a culprit that would cause such a POST behavior. But no... apparently not. Now though, that does lead me to believe that there might indeed be something iffy going on with either the Motherboard itself, or maybe the CPU. But if it was the CPU in any way, shape or form then I think I would experience at least some forms of instability-related issues in Windows, in games, and benchmarks. It would crash, or freeze, or hang, or the Temps would be all over the place (or way too high), or it would always Throttle, etc. I'm not experiencing any of that stuff. Even if, for example, by some impossible scenario there was to be something like say... bent pins on the CPU (either during installation, or as I was pressing down with the installation of the Cooler) then the system would experience at least one out of a myriad of possible symptoms. Again, I re-iterate, that my system is 'rock-solid' stable, all things considered. At least that part does work.

#3: So... let's assume (safe assumption for now) that the Motherboard itself may be somewhat faulty, but with some 'brute force' tempering it does allow full system Boot to Windows, and once I'm there... it works. Alright. If that's the case (although I'm still not 100% sure that is the case) then I CAN live with that. Knowing this at the back of my mind would allow me to use the system like this for a couple of months (crossing fingers that it would last at least that much time) until maybe at some point I do decide to remedy to all this by just going with a new Motherboard, with... a new brand too most likely. I honestly doubt that my actual CPU would be at fault for anything (then again... even on that one... I'm not 100% sure either lest I start analyzing the thing under an actual microscope in Labs conditions which I don't have nor would be willing to).

SO... with all this said...

#4: After I went back to BIOS version 0922... I did the following only, and nothing else in the BIOS...

1) Made sure ALL the ASUS-based settings related to Overclocking was 'let be' at Auto. I only used EXPO1 for my Memory and that one does work without a itch.

2) There is, however (in the BIOS) actual AMD-specific options for Overclocking (Advanced tab, scrolling at the bottom). Under THOSE options, there is also another Precision Boost Overdrive setting, which I Enabled (the rest from ASUS is on Auto).

3) To stay on the 'safe' side of things and to maybe give a small kick in the butt to help the system with voltages (which may be lacking by default settings, which is one thing I suspect might be happening too) I decided to increase the SOC voltage (which I did on my previous system to help stabilize with the Memory timings I had, which worked very well) by 3 notches on the Positive side (Offset). I haven't touched the vCore at all, however.

4) Also, in the BIOS, I used the automatic Q-Fan tuning feature. It adjusted the fans speeds and that was it. I only adjusted a bit further myself in terms of lowest fan speeds by around 200 RPM and that was it, I left the fans setting as-is after that.

5) Then... it was time to go back into Windows and see how the system behaved.

6) Thanks to your help guys I also did a few extra things in Windows itself. I.E. disabling that VBS (Virtualization-based Security) feature thing. And also ensuring that XBOX Game Bar (and Game Mode) are On, and that the apps I use are considered as a Game in Game Bar. All that is now done and works well.

7) Finally, Power Plans. I'm using 'Balanced', followed by "Best Performance" in the Power options (Windows Settings). As I kept reading around that it seems to be the best overall way to go about it in Windows 11.

So like I said in the intro, right now, I think I'm at an 'acceptable' spot as I believe that the system behaves 'as it should' (or very close to it anyway), compared to how it was doing things before.

Some results then...

Overwatch 2


Frequencies varied between 'as low as' 3.2Ghz, but as 'high' as 5.2Ghz on some Cores. Then again, Overwatch 2 isn't that demanding of a game (and I was testing in the Practice Range only). But I think that the 'point' here is to show that the CPU frequencies were behaving in a more 'normal' manner (the only thing that does bother me a bit is that some Cores run way too low basically at 1.0Ghz or more, below the rated minimum specification of 4.4Ghz for this CPU).

Also, for OW2, the CPU Diode Temp reported 'just' 58ºC.

Cyberpunk 2077


Now, in Cyberpunk the frequencies seemed to be behaving in a more consistent way (based on the fact that I was indeed running Cyberpunk, known to be of course a demanding game). The fact that way more Cores (than before) seem to boost more is a good sign to me. In this case, some Cores did occasionally drop down to around 3.7Ghz, but it was a lot rarer in comparison to Overwatch 2 for instance. And more Cores in this case also boosted above 5.0Ghz (compared to anything I did before).

For Cyberpunk, the CPU Diode Temp reported 65ºC (this is actually better than the temps I saw in the game in my previous tests especially yesterday, where I saw around 70º+ very consistently). I think that the Q-Fan tuning I did in the BIOS did help to some extent in maintaining a better average (highest) temp range than before. Only something like Cinebench can bump up the temps now (which is normal, no games actually push CPUs like Cinebench does anyway)

Idling in the Desktop


Now, in the Desktop doing nothing... it actually behaves similarly to OW2, some Cores go pretty much down by 1.0+ Ghz below the minimum specs, but some Cores do bump up at 5.0Ghz+ (for no particular reason). That's probably the only "weird" stuff I'm seeing now. But I take it, I'm ok with this situation as it is.

Additionally to all of this, since I experienced these 'issues' I had to do more research than I cared to initially. I learned 'the hard way' (shit happens heh) that AMD advertised the 7900X3D model with VERY carefully-chosen wording in their presentations, and they didn't send review units around (only sent 7950X3D units for review, whereas reviewers had to buy their 7900X3D units themselves to review them, apparently). The main reasons? Because...

1) The 7900X3D model, specifically, apparently does NOT actually have ALL the physical Cores set up with the extra 3D cache thing, because of its structure (the 6+6 thing). I don't have the lexicon to properly describe it. But suffice to say that both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D have all their Cores with the 3D cache... whereas the 7900X3D model specifically does not. So if a game was to run on any one of the non-3Dvcached Cores... then you'd effectively be running a game on a CPU that only pretends to be what it 'is', while it isn't exactly it (if... that makes any sense). I know in the end it's a matter of money and marketing. But I admit... that one from AMD is a very crass move. They did win though, they got me good on that one. I did want to go for the 7900X3D for 3 'main' reasons (as part of the "Every Day Joe's Perception of the Product Based on Usual Promotional Material in Main Presentations when Unveiling Products").

Reason A - My previous system had 8/16 Cores, I thought ok... might as well do an incremental upgrade, let's go 12/24, simple.
Reason B - This model can boost up to 5.6Ghz, neat! Can't wait to run games at 5.4Ghz to 5.6Ghz! (my previous system's maximum rated boost speeds were very common, and constant)
Reason C - Pricing, $100 less (U.S.D, mind you... I'm in Canadian dollars so for me it was around $130), saving money, no need for a 16 Core version... the 8 Core version is still 1 month away... sure, why not, high price but lower than the 7950, could buy a brand new game with that money or heck... I could order some pizzas for a few weeks.

BUT... what "Mr Joe" doesn't know necessarily is that only enthusiasts who 'dig deeper' would tell you...

The 7900X3D's actual 3dcached Cores do NOT - and are NOT designed - to actually boost higher than 5.0Ghz (*maybe 5.1Ghz if you won the silicon lottery). The 5.6Ghz maximum boost stamp on the 'Main Advertising' stuff for this model ONLY refers to the Non-3D-cached Cores. So yeah, good one AMD... good one. I'm sure you got a bunch of fish from that one.

Now, with all this said... I DO, however, believe indeed that despite the fact that I reached an 'acceptable' system behaviour overall... that there IS something 'wrong' going on, nonetheless.

Because assuming that Non-3D-cached Cores CAN boost up to 5.6Ghz then that frequency has NOT been observed for me so far. The absolutely maximum I have seen at this point (with my current settings after all I've done) was 5.275Ghz exactly (and again, only Cyberpunk 2077 made it there, not even Cinebench bring the frequencies to that point, weirdly enough). There is a 'lack' of potential ('advertised' potential that is) of around 400 Mhz lost in space somewhere drifting away from my product. I do not see 5.3Ghz, 5.4Ghz, 5.5Ghz or 5.6Ghz on anything I test the system with. Period. So THAT part is what leads me to think that either the Motherboard itself is iffy, or the CPU is faulty (but again yeah... I doubt it's the CPU... or rather I HOPE it's not the CPU, maybe I bought the 'wrong' model for the 3D cache stuff, but it IS an upgrade over my previous 5800X non-3D I had before and I do like the improvements in performance... if I can keep it I will... at least for a couple of months, if it does last me that long).

Anyways guys, sorry for the Novels (maybe some of this will help some people around experiencing something similar, who knows).

I'm considering this a 'case closed'. I'm tired from all the tests, barely played anything in the past 3 days or so. I need to settle with what I have and what works. The only thing I'll consider next is maybe a BIOS update when ASUS release one and that will be it (even then, my BIOS settings will be identical to my current ones).

Thanks guys.
 
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kognak

Junior Member
May 2, 2021
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6) THEN... went back to BIOS, and simply Enabled (from 'Auto) PBO, but I'm now seeing weird speed behaviors in gaming Vs staying in the Desktop.

HWINFO Core speed reports for:

While being in-game (Cyberpunk 2077)


Half the cores (while in Cyberpunk) pretty much stay between 3.7Ghz to around 4.3Ghz (that's a big no no for me, didn't pay for a 7900X3D to see half of the thing powering down below minimum default specs while gaming)

While being in the Desktop (no game running in the background)


But all the Cores speeds get back on a more 'regular' speed range... while idling in the Desktop. Go figure... at this point I really don't know what to think of all this.
The other CCD is running at zero MHz. Because cores on it are powered down(parked). 3rd party monitor apps can't show actual clock speed, they poll cores for information and it would wake up them. So they report last known clock speed which is typically base clock(before core going dark). Reporting is accurate only on active cores(= higher than base clock values). Scheduler tries to keep whole game on stacked CCD for best performance, so having half of cores at apparent base clock is a good thing with dual CCD CPU. It's working optimally. Spreading gaming threads over multiple CCDs causes significant performance penalties, they need to be concentrated on one CCD as games are latency sensitive. More so when only one CCD has large cache.
Btw, only Ryzen Master can show proper clock speeds in real time. It has low level access through drivers without interfering core polling. HWinfo's effective clock speed gets close too.
Parking can be enabled on any CPU with Parkcontrol, my 5800X had small power consumption gain as light threads tend to stay on priority cores and spread less. Dual CCD CPU probably is more interesting.

Edit: I think 3rd party monitor apps just report base clock when actual clock speed can't be polled. Typically it's polled in one second intervals, clocks change much quicker.
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,603
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1) The 7900X3D model, specifically, apparently does NOT actually have ALL the physical Cores set up with the extra 3D cache thing, because of its structure (the 6+6 thing). I don't have the lexicon to properly describe it. But suffice to say that both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D have all their Cores with the 3D cache... whereas the 7900X3D model specifically does not. So if a game was to run on any one of the non-3Dvcached Cores... then you'd effectively be running a game on a CPU that only pretends to be what it 'is', while it isn't exactly it (if... that makes any sense). I know in the end it's a matter of money and marketing. But I admit... that one from AMD is a very crass move. They did win though, they got me good on that one. I did want to go for the 7900X3D for 3 'main' reasons (as part of the "Every Day Joe's Perception of the Product Based on Usual Promotional Material in Main Presentations when Unveiling Products").

Only the 7800x3d has all cores (8) with V-cache. The 7950x3d and 7900x3d both have half of their cores (1 chiplet or CCD) with v-cache and half without. This is why it is important to have the latest BIOS and AMD chipsets installed, by and large with the latest versions of both, games should run on only the V-cache cores. You can also download/activate the Xbox game bar to manually tell the OS to assign a game to the V-cache CCD in case the automatic way isn't working for a particular game.
 

therealmongo

Member
Jul 5, 2019
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267
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Yes. If 7800X3D on average doesn't offer a good CCD (speculation at this point), a lot of enthusiasts may be forced to buy the 7950X3D. This may be different to the 5800X3D where since it was the only V-cache SKU, AMD may have gone with the best binned CCDs. Again, I'm speculating.
Need not worry!

Just follow Kocicak lead and buy twenty odd 7800X3D, then complain they dont meet your lofty expectations and proceed to return them one by one at the detriment of all honest sellers.

Problem solved

 

In2Photos

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2007
1,687
1,693
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1) The 7900X3D model, specifically, apparently does NOT actually have ALL the physical Cores set up with the extra 3D cache thing, because of its structure (the 6+6 thing). I don't have the lexicon to properly describe it. But suffice to say that both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D have all their Cores with the 3D cache... whereas the 7900X3D model specifically does not. So if a game was to run on any one of the non-3Dvcached Cores... then you'd effectively be running a game on a CPU that only pretends to be what it 'is', while it isn't exactly it (if... that makes any sense). I know in the end it's a matter of money and marketing. But I admit... that one from AMD is a very crass move. They did win though, they got me good on that one. I did want to go for the 7900X3D for 3 'main' reasons (as part of the "Every Day Joe's Perception of the Product Based on Usual Promotional Material in Main Presentations when Unveiling Products").

OK, this is NOT on AMD. They never once claimed that both CCDs would have V-cache. In fact, I believe they were very up front about only 1 CCD having it, so this one's on you. And there have been plenty of reviews that explain how these CPUs are working.

That being said, I don't think you should be having this much trouble with your new system. It should just work out of the box. You shouldn't need to adjust vCore. JayzTwoCents (on YouTube) recently posted a video about his 7950X3D where he thought it died after a couple of days. After doing a bunch of troubleshooting he determined that it was the motherboard (a very expensive ASUS motherboard) and not the CPU. But he was having stability issues while in Windows, error codes on post, and other odd behavior. Once he swapped the motherboard, everything was fine. It's honestly hard to determine if you are actually experiencing problems or if you are just confused about how the CPU should behave though.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
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OK, this is NOT on AMD. They never once claimed that both CCDs would have V-cache. In fact, I believe they were very up front about only 1 CCD having it, so this one's on you. And there have been plenty of reviews that explain how these CPUs are working.

That being said, I don't think you should be having this much trouble with your new system. It should just work out of the box. You shouldn't need to adjust vCore. JayzTwoCents (on YouTube) recently posted a video about his 7950X3D where he thought it died after a couple of days. After doing a bunch of troubleshooting he determined that it was the motherboard (a very expensive ASUS motherboard) and not the CPU. But he was having stability issues while in Windows, error codes on post, and other odd behavior. Once he swapped the motherboard, everything was fine. It's honestly hard to determine if you are actually experiencing problems or if you are just confused about how the CPU should behave though.

Let me ask you something simple here:


Tell me: do you see - anywhere - on their official page, where they'd say:

1) We're offering the 7900X3D and 7950X3D models BUT - by the way guys - only the model that's not available yet will have actual full 3D vCache tech on all the Cores.
2) Our 3D vCache tech is fantastic for gaming, but - by the way guys - don't buy the 7900X3D or 7950X3D model right now, because really what you want is the 7800X3D for gaming.

I don't use the proper wording here. But the point is: they do not mention that the 7800X3D is the only specific model with all the Cores having the extra Cache. They simply present their ENTIRE CPU line in a way to suggest that they 'all have that tech', witthout knowing exactly what's actually going behind the curtain (what we see, is the 'surface level' information for Mr Joe everyone, which is a group of consumer I'm part of since many years now, I don't have time for over-analysing everything I purchase; I do this sort of thing only once every 3 to 4 years). There is not 'note' anywhere clearly stating that information.

ONLY the independent reviewers would specifically mention the stuff that enthusiasts "should" know about. But AMD's official presentations and wording do NOT inform about the fact that only the 7800X3D model actually has full 3D cached Cores. That IS on AMD. Even in their Footnotes at the bottom of the page they don't specify anything of the sort. I myself found out about this after I experienced my issues. In fact, if I had not experienced any issues, I would not have been 'forced' into making research on all this and I would have genuinely believed that I had purchased a CPU model 'with 3D vCache' without ever thinking that - in actuality - half of the thing didn't have the tech in question. Believe it, or not. That's exactly what would have happened and I wouldn't have known at all until maybe later down the line (probably post-7800X3D release from more reviews out there) because - maybe - I would have checked more reviews to compare them with my own scores to see how my system behaves in comparison... and THEN maybe I would have read something about "But of course keep in mind that these higher scores are due to the fact that all the Cores on the 7800X3D model have vCache..." ... then sure, reading that down the line at some point would have sounded the alarm bells pretty hard in my head.

Because yes, I repeat: I made it clear that I was NOT aware that the 7900X3D model was basically "Half 3D" (half Cores with, and half without). It's not like AMD were clearly upfront about this. There is no actual note anywhere on my retail 7900X3D box that says "This processor only has half of the 12 Cores with the 3D vCache technology, please consult our official web site for more information". The naming is identical with the "3D" suffix on all 3 models without identification of only one being the 'real' one with all the Cores with the extra cache.

I mean heck, they could have just called it " 7900X 1 ½ D ".

Anyway, I won't type a novel about this. I have a life, a job, I don't have time to spend on researching something which for me should be as simple as "Ok, there's the so-called 3D models with that extra Cache that just came out, which is good for gaming in all the reviews I see; alright, I'll go for that". This is like a car manufacturer telling you "Yeah! Our cars have those new tires!", only to find out when you purchase the car that it has only one pair of them, the other two are typical and generic tires. AMD are simply saying "These CPUs have 3D vCache", without specifying the numbers for each models (numbers of Cores with the extra Cache, versus models with Cores that don't have it). They're simply clever in 'skipping' that specific information from their official presentations, and leaving it to the reviewers; they KNOW that a lot of people do NOT spend hours browsing through reviews that go in-depth on CPU architecture.

I once did that, many years ago. I was an "enthusiast" who spent a lot of time on this stuff but jeebus - for me - I have to go back to the times when Dual Cores from Intel were just coming out. The last one I did any manual OC'ing for (which lead me to over-inform myself prior to purchasing components) was for the Ryzen Gen 1 CPUs (and even then, it was minimal). The point is: they intentionally left that sort of 'obvious' (but not so obvious) information out of their official presentations. I never once heard about AMD claiming out loud that only the 7800X3D model would be the only one they'd recommend for gaming specifically. I simply and innocently thought "This CPU has the 3D vCache tech AND it'll also be an upgrade on the number of Cores". That's it. That's how a "simple consumer" thinks, like it or not. I trusted what you'd call "Face Value" advertising.

I got my lesson. I stayed away from being a 'careful enthusiast' like I used to, for too long. Instead of saying "It's on me", you need to understand that big companies like this regularly advertise in such ways to lead consumers in certain directions. It's nothing new. You only need to admit that companies do it all the time, and as for me I only have to admit (and I did) that they 'got me'. They got me NOT because I "didn't check enough" (because we shouldn't HAVE to), they 'got me' because I trusted this line of products into have something they advertised them to have, not "have only by half", and I got owned. It's that simple. I'm not 'at fault', I'm a victim of the company's unwillingness to clearly and transparently communicate to the 'general consumer base' what IS actually going on.

Anyway, I just wanted to reply to this one specifically. It infuriates me when people defend big business practices like this, and then tell the consumers THEY are at fault. Very funny.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,749
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Let me ask you something simple here:


Tell me: do you see - anywhere - on their official page, where they'd say:

1) We're offering the 7900X3D and 7950X3D models BUT - by the way guys - only the model that's not available yet will have actual full 3D vCache tech on all the Cores.
2) Our 3D vCache tech is fantastic for gaming, but - by the way guys - don't buy the 7900X3D or 7950X3D model right now, because really what you want is the 7800X3D for gaming.

I don't use the proper wording here. But the point is: they do not mention that the 7800X3D is the only specific model with all the Cores having the extra Cache. They simply present their ENTIRE CPU line in a way to suggest that they 'all have that tech', witthout knowing exactly what's actually going behind the curtain (what we see, is the 'surface level' information for Mr Joe everyone, which is a group of consumer I'm part of since many years now, I don't have time for over-analysing everything I purchase; I do this sort of thing only once every 3 to 4 years). There is not 'note' anywhere clearly stating that information.

ONLY the independent reviewers would specifically mention the stuff that enthusiasts "should" know about. But AMD's official presentations and wording do NOT inform about the fact that only the 7800X3D model actually has full 3D cached Cores. That IS on AMD. Even in their Footnotes at the bottom of the page they don't specify anything of the sort. I myself found out about this after I experienced my issues. In fact, if I had not experienced any issues, I would not have been 'forced' into making research on all this and I would have genuinely believed that I had purchased a CPU model 'with 3D vCache' without ever thinking that - in actuality - half of the thing didn't have the tech in question. Believe it, or not. That's exactly what would have happened and I wouldn't have known at all until maybe later down the line (probably post-7800X3D release from more reviews out there) because - maybe - I would have checked more reviews to compare them with my own scores to see how my system behaves in comparison... and THEN maybe I would have read something about "But of course keep in mind that these higher scores are due to the fact that all the Cores on the 7800X3D model have vCache..." ... then sure, reading that down the line at some point would have sounded the alarm bells pretty hard in my head.

Because yes, I repeat: I made it clear that I was NOT aware that the 7900X3D model was basically "Half 3D" (half Cores with, and half without). It's not like AMD were clearly upfront about this. There is no actual note anywhere on my retail 7900X3D box that says "This processor only has half of the 12 Cores with the 3D vCache technology, please consult our official web site for more information". The naming is identical with the "3D" suffix on all 3 models without identification of only one being the 'real' one with all the Cores with the extra cache.

I mean heck, they could have just called it " 7900X 1 ½ D ".

Anyway, I won't type a novel about this. I have a life, a job, I don't have time to spend on researching something which for me should be as simple as "Ok, there's the so-called 3D models with that extra Cache that just came out, which is good for gaming in all the reviews I see; alright, I'll go for that". This is like a car manufacturer telling you "Yeah! Our cars have those new tires!", only to find out when you purchase the car that it has only one pair of them, the other two are typical and generic tires. AMD are simply saying "These CPUs have 3D vCache", without specifying the numbers for each models (numbers of Cores with the extra Cache, versus models with Cores that don't have it). They're simply clever in 'skipping' that specific information from their official presentations, and leaving it to the reviewers; they KNOW that a lot of people do NOT spend hours browsing through reviews that go in-depth on CPU architecture.

I once did that, many years ago. I was an "enthusiast" who spent a lot of time on this stuff but jeebus - for me - I have to go back to the times when Dual Cores from Intel were just coming out. The last one I did any manual OC'ing for (which lead me to over-inform myself prior to purchasing components) was for the Ryzen Gen 1 CPUs (and even then, it was minimal). The point is: they intentionally left that sort of 'obvious' (but not so obvious) information out of their official presentations. I never once heard about AMD claiming out loud that only the 7800X3D model would be the only one they'd recommend for gaming specifically. I simply and innocently thought "This CPU has the 3D vCache tech AND it'll also be an upgrade on the number of Cores". That's it. That's how a "simple consumer" thinks, like it or not. I trusted what you'd call "Face Value" advertising.

I got my lesson. I stayed away from being a 'careful enthusiast' like I used to, for too long. Instead of saying "It's on me", you need to understand that big companies like this regularly advertise in such ways to lead consumers in certain directions. It's nothing new. You only need to admit that companies do it all the time, and as for me I only have to admit (and I did) that they 'got me'. They got me NOT because I "didn't check enough" (because we shouldn't HAVE to), they 'got me' because I trusted this line of products into have something they advertised them to have, not "have only by half", and I got owned. It's that simple. I'm not 'at fault', I'm a victim of the company's unwillingness to clearly and transparently communicate to the 'general consumer base' what IS actually going on.

Anyway, I just wanted to reply to this one specifically. It infuriates me when people defend big business practices like this, and then tell the consumers THEY are at fault. Very funny.
When they tell you that Zen 3D will have 64 meg extra cache (and all 3 do) where are they misleading you ? You just ASSUME that means its spread over all the cores ? So you have enough smarts to know there are 2 CCDs in 7900x and 7950x and one in the 7800x, but you don't have enough smarts to figure out how the cache is distributed ? So you blame it on AMD....

Right....

Edit: I could go further,,, so AMD has to tell you every detail of the CPU in their advertising or its their fault ? Which CPUs share how much L3 cache ? how many cores what L2 cache ? does it have an L4 cache ? What is a cache ? They give you the highlights, and if you want to know more its widely available to you from THEM on their web site.

Edit 2: If you don't know everything about a CPU, why would you spend extra on it ?
 
Last edited:

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,779
1,352
136
Let me ask you something simple here:


Tell me: do you see - anywhere - on their official page, where they'd say:

1) We're offering the 7900X3D and 7950X3D models BUT - by the way guys - only the model that's not available yet will have actual full 3D vCache tech on all the Cores.
2) Our 3D vCache tech is fantastic for gaming, but - by the way guys - don't buy the 7900X3D or 7950X3D model right now, because really what you want is the 7800X3D for gaming.

I don't use the proper wording here. But the point is: they do not mention that the 7800X3D is the only specific model with all the Cores having the extra Cache. They simply present their ENTIRE CPU line in a way to suggest that they 'all have that tech', witthout knowing exactly what's actually going behind the curtain (what we see, is the 'surface level' information for Mr Joe everyone, which is a group of consumer I'm part of since many years now, I don't have time for over-analysing everything I purchase; I do this sort of thing only once every 3 to 4 years). There is not 'note' anywhere clearly stating that information.

ONLY the independent reviewers would specifically mention the stuff that enthusiasts "should" know about. But AMD's official presentations and wording do NOT inform about the fact that only the 7800X3D model actually has full 3D cached Cores. That IS on AMD. Even in their Footnotes at the bottom of the page they don't specify anything of the sort. I myself found out about this after I experienced my issues. In fact, if I had not experienced any issues, I would not have been 'forced' into making research on all this and I would have genuinely believed that I had purchased a CPU model 'with 3D vCache' without ever thinking that - in actuality - half of the thing didn't have the tech in question. Believe it, or not. That's exactly what would have happened and I wouldn't have known at all until maybe later down the line (probably post-7800X3D release from more reviews out there) because - maybe - I would have checked more reviews to compare them with my own scores to see how my system behaves in comparison... and THEN maybe I would have read something about "But of course keep in mind that these higher scores are due to the fact that all the Cores on the 7800X3D model have vCache..." ... then sure, reading that down the line at some point would have sounded the alarm bells pretty hard in my head.

Because yes, I repeat: I made it clear that I was NOT aware that the 7900X3D model was basically "Half 3D" (half Cores with, and half without). It's not like AMD were clearly upfront about this. There is no actual note anywhere on my retail 7900X3D box that says "This processor only has half of the 12 Cores with the 3D vCache technology, please consult our official web site for more information". The naming is identical with the "3D" suffix on all 3 models without identification of only one being the 'real' one with all the Cores with the extra cache.

I mean heck, they could have just called it " 7900X 1 ½ D ".

Anyway, I won't type a novel about this. I have a life, a job, I don't have time to spend on researching something which for me should be as simple as "Ok, there's the so-called 3D models with that extra Cache that just came out, which is good for gaming in all the reviews I see; alright, I'll go for that". This is like a car manufacturer telling you "Yeah! Our cars have those new tires!", only to find out when you purchase the car that it has only one pair of them, the other two are typical and generic tires. AMD are simply saying "These CPUs have 3D vCache", without specifying the numbers for each models (numbers of Cores with the extra Cache, versus models with Cores that don't have it). They're simply clever in 'skipping' that specific information from their official presentations, and leaving it to the reviewers; they KNOW that a lot of people do NOT spend hours browsing through reviews that go in-depth on CPU architecture.

I once did that, many years ago. I was an "enthusiast" who spent a lot of time on this stuff but jeebus - for me - I have to go back to the times when Dual Cores from Intel were just coming out. The last one I did any manual OC'ing for (which lead me to over-inform myself prior to purchasing components) was for the Ryzen Gen 1 CPUs (and even then, it was minimal). The point is: they intentionally left that sort of 'obvious' (but not so obvious) information out of their official presentations. I never once heard about AMD claiming out loud that only the 7800X3D model would be the only one they'd recommend for gaming specifically. I simply and innocently thought "This CPU has the 3D vCache tech AND it'll also be an upgrade on the number of Cores". That's it. That's how a "simple consumer" thinks, like it or not. I trusted what you'd call "Face Value" advertising.

I got my lesson. I stayed away from being a 'careful enthusiast' like I used to, for too long. Instead of saying "It's on me", you need to understand that big companies like this regularly advertise in such ways to lead consumers in certain directions. It's nothing new. You only need to admit that companies do it all the time, and as for me I only have to admit (and I did) that they 'got me'. They got me NOT because I "didn't check enough" (because we shouldn't HAVE to), they 'got me' because I trusted this line of products into have something they advertised them to have, not "have only by half", and I got owned. It's that simple. I'm not 'at fault', I'm a victim of the company's unwillingness to clearly and transparently communicate to the 'general consumer base' what IS actually going on.

Anyway, I just wanted to reply to this one specifically. It infuriates me when people defend big business practices like this, and then tell the consumers THEY are at fault. Very funny.
Well, I somewhat understand your feelings, but again, it is a 700 dollar purchase that will be used for several years, so I think a bit of time for research is warranted. AMD did not state anything wrong, specifically, they just might not have explained the situation fully. Actually, the only processor I have reservations about is the 7900x3D. It is kind of the worst of both worlds. Not as many cached cores as the 7800x3D and not a many "fast" cores as the non-cached versions. I could see the 7950x as an advantage, actually, assuming the scheduler works properly. You get a full 8 cores with vcache like the 7800x3D for gaming, while also getting 8 cores without the cache, but higher clockspeed, for productivity apps. 7800x3D then becomes a fully gaming focused chip, probably slower in productivity than the non vcache model. It will be interesting to see how the 7800x3D and 7950x3D compare in gaming, and what clockspeed they can maintain under gaming load.

Actually, one could almost consider the 7900/7950x3D as mild "hybrid" chips.
 

In2Photos

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2007
1,687
1,693
136
Let me ask you something simple here:


Tell me: do you see - anywhere - on their official page, where they'd say:

1) We're offering the 7900X3D and 7950X3D models BUT - by the way guys - only the model that's not available yet will have actual full 3D vCache tech on all the Cores.
2) Our 3D vCache tech is fantastic for gaming, but - by the way guys - don't buy the 7900X3D or 7950X3D model right now, because really what you want is the 7800X3D for gaming.

I don't use the proper wording here. But the point is: they do not mention that the 7800X3D is the only specific model with all the Cores having the extra Cache. They simply present their ENTIRE CPU line in a way to suggest that they 'all have that tech', witthout knowing exactly what's actually going behind the curtain (what we see, is the 'surface level' information for Mr Joe everyone, which is a group of consumer I'm part of since many years now, I don't have time for over-analysing everything I purchase; I do this sort of thing only once every 3 to 4 years). There is not 'note' anywhere clearly stating that information.

ONLY the independent reviewers would specifically mention the stuff that enthusiasts "should" know about. But AMD's official presentations and wording do NOT inform about the fact that only the 7800X3D model actually has full 3D cached Cores. That IS on AMD. Even in their Footnotes at the bottom of the page they don't specify anything of the sort. I myself found out about this after I experienced my issues. In fact, if I had not experienced any issues, I would not have been 'forced' into making research on all this and I would have genuinely believed that I had purchased a CPU model 'with 3D vCache' without ever thinking that - in actuality - half of the thing didn't have the tech in question. Believe it, or not. That's exactly what would have happened and I wouldn't have known at all until maybe later down the line (probably post-7800X3D release from more reviews out there) because - maybe - I would have checked more reviews to compare them with my own scores to see how my system behaves in comparison... and THEN maybe I would have read something about "But of course keep in mind that these higher scores are due to the fact that all the Cores on the 7800X3D model have vCache..." ... then sure, reading that down the line at some point would have sounded the alarm bells pretty hard in my head.

Because yes, I repeat: I made it clear that I was NOT aware that the 7900X3D model was basically "Half 3D" (half Cores with, and half without). It's not like AMD were clearly upfront about this. There is no actual note anywhere on my retail 7900X3D box that says "This processor only has half of the 12 Cores with the 3D vCache technology, please consult our official web site for more information". The naming is identical with the "3D" suffix on all 3 models without identification of only one being the 'real' one with all the Cores with the extra cache.

I mean heck, they could have just called it " 7900X 1 ½ D ".

Anyway, I won't type a novel about this. I have a life, a job, I don't have time to spend on researching something which for me should be as simple as "Ok, there's the so-called 3D models with that extra Cache that just came out, which is good for gaming in all the reviews I see; alright, I'll go for that". This is like a car manufacturer telling you "Yeah! Our cars have those new tires!", only to find out when you purchase the car that it has only one pair of them, the other two are typical and generic tires. AMD are simply saying "These CPUs have 3D vCache", without specifying the numbers for each models (numbers of Cores with the extra Cache, versus models with Cores that don't have it). They're simply clever in 'skipping' that specific information from their official presentations, and leaving it to the reviewers; they KNOW that a lot of people do NOT spend hours browsing through reviews that go in-depth on CPU architecture.

I once did that, many years ago. I was an "enthusiast" who spent a lot of time on this stuff but jeebus - for me - I have to go back to the times when Dual Cores from Intel were just coming out. The last one I did any manual OC'ing for (which lead me to over-inform myself prior to purchasing components) was for the Ryzen Gen 1 CPUs (and even then, it was minimal). The point is: they intentionally left that sort of 'obvious' (but not so obvious) information out of their official presentations. I never once heard about AMD claiming out loud that only the 7800X3D model would be the only one they'd recommend for gaming specifically. I simply and innocently thought "This CPU has the 3D vCache tech AND it'll also be an upgrade on the number of Cores". That's it. That's how a "simple consumer" thinks, like it or not. I trusted what you'd call "Face Value" advertising.

I got my lesson. I stayed away from being a 'careful enthusiast' like I used to, for too long. Instead of saying "It's on me", you need to understand that big companies like this regularly advertise in such ways to lead consumers in certain directions. It's nothing new. You only need to admit that companies do it all the time, and as for me I only have to admit (and I did) that they 'got me'. They got me NOT because I "didn't check enough" (because we shouldn't HAVE to), they 'got me' because I trusted this line of products into have something they advertised them to have, not "have only by half", and I got owned. It's that simple. I'm not 'at fault', I'm a victim of the company's unwillingness to clearly and transparently communicate to the 'general consumer base' what IS actually going on.

Anyway, I just wanted to reply to this one specifically. It infuriates me when people defend big business practices like this, and then tell the consumers THEY are at fault. Very funny.
The 30 second video on that page literally shows the vcache on just 1 CCD.



It probably took you longer to type up this reply than it would have to research the chip. Hell all you had to do was read this thread or ask the question.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,749
14,781
136
The 30 second video on that page literally shows the vcache on just 1 CCD.

View attachment 77966

It probably took you longer to type up this reply than it would have to research the chip. Hell all you had to do was read this thread or ask the question.
And you would have to be blind not to see something odd about the 2 CCDs that you are aware of, they don't look the same.

There is just no excuse for your rambling.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,527
604
126
To do what, get 5 more frames at 720P?! People who enjoy gaming will buy the 7800X3D, people who enjoy the hardware will buy the 7950X3D.

The big problem I see with the 7900/7950 is having to rely on Windows to choose the right cores for a given game, otherwise I would get one. The 7800X3D just seems more hassle-free even if it's a bit slower.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,814
4,105
136
1) The 7900X3D model, specifically, apparently does NOT actually have ALL the physical Cores set up with the extra 3D cache thing, because of its structure (the 6+6 thing). I don't have the lexicon to properly describe it. But suffice to say that both the 7800X3D and the 7950X3D have all their Cores with the 3D cache... whereas the 7900X3D model specifically does not. So if a game was to run on any one of the non-3Dvcached Cores... then you'd effectively be running a game on a CPU that only pretends to be what it 'is', while it isn't exactly it (if... that makes any sense). I know in the end it's a matter of money and marketing. But I admit... that one from AMD is a very crass move. They did win though, they got me good on that one. I did want to go for the 7900X3D for 3 'main' reasons (as part of the "Every Day Joe's Perception of the Product Based on Usual Promotional Material in Main Presentations when Unveiling Products").

Reason A - My previous system had 8/16 Cores, I thought ok... might as well do an incremental upgrade, let's go 12/24, simple.
Reason B - This model can boost up to 5.6Ghz, neat! Can't wait to run games at 5.4Ghz to 5.6Ghz! (my previous system's maximum rated boost speeds were very common, and constant)
Reason C - Pricing, $100 less (U.S.D, mind you... I'm in Canadian dollars so for me it was around $130), saving money, no need for a 16 Core version... the 8 Core version is still 1 month away... sure, why not, high price but lower than the 7950, could buy a brand new game with that money or heck... I could order some pizzas for a few weeks.

BUT... what "Mr Joe" doesn't know necessarily is that only enthusiasts who 'dig deeper' would tell you...

The 7900X3D's actual 3dcached Cores do NOT - and are NOT designed - to actually boost higher than 5.0Ghz (*maybe 5.1Ghz if you won the silicon lottery). The 5.6Ghz maximum boost stamp on the 'Main Advertising' stuff for this model ONLY refers to the Non-3D-cached Cores. So yeah, good one AMD... good one. I'm sure you got a bunch of fish from that one.

1) Where on earth did you get that? The 7800X3D and 7950X3D would all have CCD(s) with 3D cache but the 7900X3D would be a second class citizen with only one CCD having the extra cache?

Reason B) That was never going to happen in games. Simply looking at a review or even the picture listing the three models showing the 7800X3D tops out at 5.0GHz should have shown you that. If you are going to buy something like this it pays to do your homework.

The 7900X3D, or the 7950X3D will not boost all cores to their top speeds. This has been the case since Ryzen launched. It will never reach those speeds in games. It will on some threads most likely but they also have less TDP to play with than the non-3D models.

The only thing I agree with is the AMD should have made it more clear that games will NOT hit those top speeds, except perhaps on the 7800X3D.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,400
12,849
136
The big problem I see with the 7900/7950 is having to rely on Windows to choose the right cores for a given game, otherwise I would get one. The 7800X3D just seems more hassle-free even if it's a bit slower.
My understanding is there's always the options to force the usage of the v-cache chiplet by enabling some UEFI opotions. The follwoing is from the Techpowerup review:
Throughout this review we're presenting two additional results "Scheduler set to Prefer Cache" and "Scheduler set to Prefer Frequency". These numbers are based on a BIOS option that lets you customize the scheduling behavior in the processor. You may either use the default (controlled by AMD's drivers with input from game detection) or override that mechanism and push all workloads on the cores with 3DV-Cache first ("prefer cache"), and only when all those cores are busy use the high-frequency cores on CCD2.

If I were a person who games a lot but for some reason can also use a 16-core CPU, I would simply enable "Prefer Cache" and get on with my life until the automatic scheduling mechanic is perfected. This is exactly what I did with my 12700K, I kept the E-cores off for almost 1 year until Win 11 was mature enough for my main system. Temporarily not having E-cores was a small price to play for a hassle free experience, and I would argue the same applies to not having optimized priority for the non-cache chiplet.

That being said, if I had to build an AM5 system for my needs today, I would not go past 7700X / 7800X3D.
 

Kaluan

Senior member
Jan 4, 2022
503
1,074
106
Hard to say. I don't remember AMD commenting on their schedule like that in the past whereas Intel has. It's a late q2 product.
Latest words on the tech street were CES 2024 for Strix Point and Q2 2024 for Turin, no idea were Granite Ridge fits in all of that but possibly in-between.

Not even a whispers on next gen chipsets tho, yet.

Latest word for Zen5 tape out were quite awhile ago and they were surrounding TSMC's N3 woes and if AMD can decide plan B to stay on N5/N4 nodes instead. Which TBH sounded like typical WCCFTech clickbait, so haul in some trucks of salt.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Joe NYC

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
Computerbase updated their 7900X3D review with apps perfs and power measurements, from their power numbers in Cinebench and Prime 95 it seems that the 7950X3D is factory set at 142W PPT and the 7900X3D around 115-120W PPT.

 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,428
535
136
I made a conscious choice to get the regular Z4 this time around, because I had no idea when the X3D parts would be out. I guess I had some X factor in the back of my mind too, that DDR5 could be so fast that the cache had less impact than on Z3, or that indeed there would be only one CCD with cache making the core heterogenous and bringing with it the scheduling issues that Intel has. I didn't really give much thought to the latter, the release date was pretty much the only thing influencing my decision. And I turned out to be wrong in my consideration, the X3D part came out pretty quickly and not after ~1yr that was my guess. However, the fact that it was heterogenous with different types of cores made me still happy to have avoided it (or I would have been on Intel anyway).

After 20+ years of enjoying building PC's, I know the hassles I can deal with and the ones that aren't worth it for me. This is highly subjective, but after reading about the scheduling on the CPU and in Windows for Intel I pretty much knew I would be getting Z4 and not RL like a year in advance. So naturally I was not ready for Z4X3D either, not that I saw it coming with heterogenous cores. If the performance advantage was major (hard to put down a number but let's say 25%+) I might have reconsidered Intel RL or Z4 X3D.

Everyone is different, but considering the experience of the user above, I absolutely understand where they're coming from. I actually really like the idea of heterogenous cores, I think it is the future, but I don't want to deal with it until the scheduling is nailed down to just work natively. I hope we're there in ~1-2yrs so that the next generation buying decision doesn't have to involve compromises at all.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,402
4,965
136
I made a conscious choice to get the regular Z4 this time around, because I had no idea when the X3D parts would be out. I guess I had some X factor in the back of my mind too, that DDR5 could be so fast that the cache had less impact than on Z3, or that indeed there would be only one CCD with cache making the core heterogenous and bringing with it the scheduling issues that Intel has. I didn't really give much thought to the latter, the release date was pretty much the only thing influencing my decision. And I turned out to be wrong in my consideration, the X3D part came out pretty quickly and not after ~1yr that was my guess. However, the fact that it was heterogenous with different types of cores made me still happy to have avoided it (or I would have been on Intel anyway).

After 20+ years of enjoying building PC's, I know the hassles I can deal with and the ones that aren't worth it for me. This is highly subjective, but after reading about the scheduling on the CPU and in Windows for Intel I pretty much knew I would be getting Z4 and not RL like a year in advance. So naturally I was not ready for Z4X3D either, not that I saw it coming with heterogenous cores. If the performance advantage was major (hard to put down a number but let's say 25%+) I might have reconsidered Intel RL or Z4 X3D.

Everyone is different, but considering the experience of the user above, I absolutely understand where they're coming from. I actually really like the idea of heterogenous cores, I think it is the future, but I don't want to deal with it until the scheduling is nailed down to just work natively. I hope we're there in ~1-2yrs so that the next generation buying decision doesn't have to involve compromises at all.
Originally I was planning to get the 7700X, because I thought the 7800X3D would be released much later, but being released so close I decided to wait, as the worst that could happen was that I would end up with a 7700X anyway and a couple of AGESA updates for a more mature platform. The heterogeneous does not scare me too much, but since I really don't have need for a lot of cores it would be silly to go that route.
 

In2Photos

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2007
1,687
1,693
136
Originally I was planning to get the 7700X, because I thought the 7800X3D would be released much later, but being released so close I decided to wait, as the worst that could happen was that I would end up with a 7700X anyway and a couple of AGESA updates for a more mature platform. The heterogeneous does not scare me too much, but since I really don't have need for a lot of cores it would be silly to go that route.
As you know I was in the same spot as well. But after seeing the reviews of the X3D parts and how little performance advantage they seem to have over the non 3D parts I'm glad I didn't wait. Unless the 7800X3D behaves differently I just don't see paying almost 33% more for a CPU that offers only a few % more performance.
 
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