Review Zen4 3D review thread

[Hitman928]

Thread to focus on Zen4 3D cache CPUs.

New gaming king (as most expected), though the 2 CCD 7950x3d does seem to have issues with some games, more than I would expect of it getting stuck on the "wrong" CCD. I imagine it will get cleared up with subsequent updates but we'll see. Simulated 7800X3D showed no such issues and overall has the gaming lead (real product might be slightly slower though depending on in game clocks).

Computerbase also has the 7950x3d as the gaming champ. They (and TPU) also show that efficiency while gaming is extremely good.

Ryzen 9 7950X3D im Test gegen 5800X3D und 13900K(S)

Zen 4 3D ist da. Im Test erweist sich AMDs Ryzen 9 7950X3D gegen 7950X, 5800X3D und Core i9-13900K(S) als schnell und effizient.

www.computerbase.de

Just to toot my own horn a little, it landed spot on with my prediction of fastest gaming CPU but not significantly so over a 13900k on average, but with much higher efficiency.

Additional reviews, will add more later.

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D processor review

We review the new Ryzen 9 7950X3D processor from AMD. The much-anticipated processor series comes with an added cache that will help predominantly with gaming. This processor series was designed for ...

www.guru3d.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review - Best of Both Worlds

The Ryzen 9 7950X3D is the spearhead of the AMD Zen 4 X3D lineup. In our performance review we test AMD's new 16-core flagship with dozens of applications and 14 games at up to 4K, to see whether AMD can take the performance crown from Intel, how power consumption is affected, and what can be...

www.techpowerup.com

The AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review: AMD's Fastest Gaming Processor

www.anandtech.com

Gamers Nexus

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review: AMD Retakes Gaming Crown with 3D V-Cache

AMD takes a bite out of Raptor Lake.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D review: Team Red retakes the lead with its best CPU ever

The AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D is the best gaming CPU there is, and it's not close

www.techradar.com

 

[Joe NYC]

Why do you believe that, when the platform already has 12 and 16 core CPUs?

Pricewise it had to compete with the 13700K which obviously is much better in multicore, but for how many will that matter? and whether cache or e-cores will age best for gamers only time will tell.

Speaking of e cores, I just came across a game release that advises users to turn off e-cores or manually pin the game to p-cores on Intel parts to avoid unexpected performance fluctuations.

 

[Joe NYC]

You must be new here. Welcome to the forums. We usually pillory shareholders or other financially-motivated ilk on this forum. Righteously so. Sometimes even giving them a veritable scarlet letter on their forum accounts if we don't ban them outright.

IMO it was 100% about money by saving the best [7800X3D] for last. You have 6+ months to collect the early adopter tax from everyone on the bleeding edge and by trickling out the higher core count and higher margin parts first you extract as much as you can out of the high margin price-insensitive customers as possible. Only then you release the part everybody wants for high-end gaming at a more mainstream price. Typical move for profit? Yes. Scummy? Yes.

If I was a shareholder I'd probably approve of this move. I'm not, so I disapprove.

I think additional consideration is that it doesn't seem like AMD had a huge stockpile of the V-Cache CCDs, and there was no way to satisfy the market for 7800x3d 6 weeks ago.

And it turns out that even with higher priced product, 7950x3d, AMD did not have enough supply to satisfy the demand.

We can all hope that the ramp of the V-Cache parts will be steep and there will enough parts in stock in coming weeks...

 

[Joe NYC]

I am new here and I didn’t know the rules about focusing too heavily on the market impacts, apologies.

I get the counter argument, I just believe that the initial Zen 4 launch would’ve made a huge splash and been received more positively had the 7800X3D came out with the initial release.

Anyway, that’s the last of that topic from me.

I think your questions are good. And the answers are, IMO, that AMD is not holding any products back. AMD tries to sell them as soon as they are available for highest price possible.

Sometimes the gamers may end up with the short end of the stick, as it was the case with 5800x3d, when AMD decided to prioritize the server Milan-X parts over desktop. But it does not appear to be the case this time around, it seems that the desktop is getting first dibs on these V-Cache CCDs.

 

[Joe NYC]

It might not have been ready in time for the launch. It's been a little over six months since the launch of Zen 4, and even the first v-cache parts took around 5 months to come out. Maybe they could have launched in more limited quantities, but then people complain when you have to pay a $100 scalper tax if you want one.

I don't even really think it changes much with regards to sales or AM5 adoption as AMD let people know roughly when the v-cache parts were coming and anyone who really wanted one was probably going to wait.

I do t think there are too many people who would buy a new 7700X and then upgrade it to Zen4D as soon as they could. Even though there may be a few who would do this, it doesn't change much as there's now a used 7700X on the market that means one fewer new 7700X sold now.

I'm not sure the pricing matters much either as for ~$320 you can have what's still the second best gaming CPU in several games. AMD's bigger issue is the sub-$200 part of the market where there's nothing for AM5, which is limiting adoption more than anything else.

7600 (non-X) is already at $219.

I think there will be a proliferation of AM5 parts, possibly inluding Zen3+ Rembrandt, maybe one of the Phoenix parts.

 

[Joe NYC]

fingers crossed it will but I'm not expecting much past zen 5 3d mate. Intel would have to put pressure on amd through arrow or panther for them to take a face savng move such as that. as it stands now intel is competitive but also sports a self immolation feature built into their processors.

My guess is that around the time of Zen 6, it will be compelling to move memory inside the CPU socket. Maybe some economical implementation of HBM. And then, the socket will just have to be bigger.

 

[Joe NYC]

I just refreshed the page for Microcenter in Yonkers, NY (one of the stores in NYC metropolitan area) and see what showed up:
(25+ means they are starting with a decent supply)

 

[Abwx]

If the X3D chips are anything like my 7700 I don't think they would be good mobile chips. My CPU idles around 38W. While they are much more efficient than Intel as load increases, they consume too much at idle/low use.

There s definitly something badly set in your system, Computerbase measured 13.9W idle power for a 7700X on a Gigabyte MB and 12.2W on an Asus, for the full system they measure 8W more than an Intel system, the difference is 6W for a 7800x3D.

Full system idle power :

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D im Test

Am sehnlichsten erwartet, als letzter gestartet, aber jetzt ist er da: Der AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit 3D V-Cache im Test.

www.computerbase.de

Package power idling and under Handbrake can be checked here :

AMD Ryzen 7000 im Test: So schnell sind 7950X und 7700X: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz

Ryzen 9 7950X & Ryzen 7 7700X im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz / TDP und PPT steigen deutlich

www.computerbase.de

 

[A///]

My guess is that around the time of Zen 6, it will be compelling to move memory inside the CPU socket. Maybe some economical implementation of HBM. And then, the socket will just have to be bigger.

Like Apple? Makes little sense since DDR6 is due in a few years. the long term risk of moving high speed memory onto the cpu package is too high given the temps these x86 processors operate at vs the m1-m3

 

[Kocicak]

Just imagine where Intel would be today if they had 30 percent improvement with every generation from 2700K to 11900K :O

They would be far.

And AMD would be 6 feet under.

Do you people understand that slow Intel with their 4 core CPUs over and over enabled AMD to survive, when they had no good products to sell?

 

[In2Photos]

There s definitly something badly set in your system, Computerbase measured 13.9W idle power for a 7700X on a Gigabyte MB and 12.2W on an Asus, for the full system they measure 8W more than an Intel system, the difference is 6W for a 7800x3D.

Full system idle power :

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D im Test

Am sehnlichsten erwartet, als letzter gestartet, aber jetzt ist er da: Der AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit 3D V-Cache im Test.

www.computerbase.de

Package power idling and under Handbrake can be checked here :

AMD Ryzen 7000 im Test: So schnell sind 7950X und 7700X: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz

Ryzen 9 7950X & Ryzen 7 7700X im Test: Leistungsaufnahme und Effizienz / TDP und PPT steigen deutlich

www.computerbase.de

Well my daughter's 7600x idles at 28W. This is total package power. Turning off XMP drops about 10W.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It's 2023 and the 7800X 3D is the best overall gaming CPU. The performance per watt is the shining jewel in the crown. I just wanted to write that since there still seems to be some confusion.

The amount of salt I am reading is going to give some of you cats high blood pressure. ☠️ If you don't already have it. I suspect you do.

Q: Why did it take so long to come out?
A: Good things come to those who wait, that's why. 😝

Q:Why does it cost so much?
A: It doesn't. Your Ferengi calculator is stuck on the old math from before human malware fractured the industry off into a different timeline. $450 gets you the overall fastest gaming CPU. It starts paying for itself vs the closest competitors via ability to use cheap board, cheap cooling, cheaper ram, and energy savings, the moment you start gaming. I don't care if power is cheap where you live -

 

[A///]

I feel like I've had a stroke trying to read kociak's post.


edit: it was amd's game chip contracts that allowed them to keep the lights on. Intel developed sandy or haswell with the intention of battling AMD, but AMD decided to deliver a subpar product while huffing toxic fumes. I'm not sure if Intel could have at the time delivered high core count processors like they have since ryzen released back then or were experiencing terrible yields that they only had higher core counts big air quotes for their hedt or extreme lineups. 8th gen is when Intel formally responded to by upping core counts. Interestingly and not to dwell too much on intel, is they can place more p-cores going forward but are banking on the quality of their big and small core architectures providing better performance and mixed use compared to amd, but we know amd will eventually go the same path.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I feel like I've had a stroke trying to read kociak's post.

Not wrong though. The rabbit took a nap and the tortoise caught up and passed it. And rest assured, no one is more cognizant of the fact than Intel. Now we have real competition and CPUs are exciting again.

BTW, 7800X 3D is still in stock at Newegg if anyone wants one. Either they put in a big order, or the timing of this release was terrible, or both. I am in no hurry to ditch my AM4 systems, so it will be at least $100 cheaper by the time I am in the market. Heck it may only be available used by then.

 

[A///]

Not wrong though. The rabbit took a nap and the tortoise caught up and passed it. And rest assured, no one is more cognizant of the fact than Intel. Now we have real competition and CPUs are exciting again.

BTW, 7800X 3D is still in stock at Newegg if anyone wants one. Either they put in a big order, or the timing of this release was terrible, or both. I am in no hurry to ditch my AM4 systems, so it will be at least $100 cheaper by the time I am in the market. Heck it may only be available used by then.

I got it in the end. see my edit. The joys of taking a few days off but not being able to sleep and this is how my friday is going.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

If you have +200 set in PBO, turn it off. You'll see there is no difference on the V-Cache CCD.

I did some testing this morning, it seems like it's a bit more complicated than that.

I used corecycler set to SSE to elicit the highest singlecore boost frequencies and locked it to the best core on both CCD's. I checked frequency with Ryzen Master.

This doesn't look to be FMAX but more like effective frequency.

PBO on was -30CO and 10X scalar.

PBO OFF - V$: 4.975GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.7GHz max
PBO ON - V$: 5.2GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.775GHz max
PBO ON +200MHz - V$ - 5.2GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.85GHz max

So I suppose I would agree the positive frequency offset doesn't help the V$ CCD at all, but it does help the frequency CCD.

I would like to see a similar test done with a 7800X3D to see how it clocks. I would think the V$ CCD is similar or the same between them, so some hard evidence in a direct like for like comparison to show the 7800X3D doesn't clock as well as the 7950X3D would be nice.

Unfortunately I don't really want to buy a 7800X3D and do CPU swaps to test it myself. Hopefully someone here gets one and can try similar testing?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I got it in the end. see my edit. The joys of taking a few days off but not being able to sleep and this is how my friday is going.

It's Thor's day where I live. Where are you, Auckland?

Good point about consoles keeping AMD alive. Sony is their biggest customer right now. The haters dismissed the console wins as meaningless at the time. Low margins, not enough to survive, blah blah blah. Their prognosticating aged like warm milk.

 

[A///]

It's Thor's day where I live. Where are you, Auckland?

Good point about consoles keeping AMD alive. Sony is their biggest customer right now. The haters dismissed the console wins as meaningless at the time. Low margins, not enough to survive, blah blah blah. Their prognosticating aged like warm milk.

US, it's thursday but I took a few days off to rest. It's a friday somewhere.

It was always bs. Console volume made up for a lot and it's how zen's dev budget came. The stars were aligned more than 20 years ago when nvidia went on their journey of pissing off companies including the likes of Apple and allowing amd to swoop in to save the day. We could have been experiencing a different console and mobile phone world climate and computers if some companies and their ceos weren't knobs and ego maniacs.

 

[gdansk]

Really phenomenal gaming performance. Price is not great, not terrible.
In total those who waited really won this time.

 

[Markfw]

I got it in the end. see my edit. The joys of taking a few days off but not being able to sleep and this is how my friday is going.

Its Thursday...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Q: Why did it take so long to come out?

Q:Why does it cost so much?

I wish all FAQs were written the way you write them

 

[Abwx]

I did some testing this morning, it seems like it's a bit more complicated than that.

I used corecycler set to SSE to elicit the highest singlecore boost frequencies and locked it to the best core on both CCD's. I checked frequency with Ryzen Master.

This doesn't look to be FMAX but more like effective frequency.

PBO on was -30CO and 10X scalar.

PBO OFF - V$: 4.975GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.7GHz max
PBO ON - V$: 5.2GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.775GHz max
PBO ON +200MHz - V$ - 5.2GHz max/Freq CCD: 5.85GHz max

So I suppose I would agree the positive frequency offset doesn't help the V$ CCD at all, but it does help the frequency CCD.

I would like to see a similar test done with a 7800X3D to see how it clocks. I would think the V$ CCD is similar or the same between them, so some hard evidence in a direct like for like comparison to show the 7800X3D doesn't clock as well as the 7950X3D would be nice.

Unfortunately I don't really want to buy a 7800X3D and do CPU swaps to test it myself. Hopefully someone here gets one and can try similar testing?

On games it s 4.93 average and 5.013 max, so basically it s stuck at 5GHz.

Max power is 80W in applications, that is 10W less than a 7700, dunno why AMD rated the thing at 120W/162W PPT...

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D im Test

Am sehnlichsten erwartet, als letzter gestartet, aber jetzt ist er da: Der AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit 3D V-Cache im Test.

www.computerbase.de

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

On games it s 4.93 average and 5.013 max, so basically it s stuck at 5GHz.

Max power is 80W in applications, that is 10W less than a 7700, dunno why AMD rated the thing at 120W/162W PPT...

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D im Test

Am sehnlichsten erwartet, als letzter gestartet, aber jetzt ist er da: Der AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit 3D V-Cache im Test.

www.computerbase.de

My singlethread peak frequency test showed 4.975GHz max. My point more is unless we have equivalent settings and testing we will never see if there is a difference.

Also my 7950X3D never exceeds ~152W PPT so it has never throttled. Maybe on air cooling it could heat up and slap the PPT limit, but I am testing completely unhindered.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I wish all FAQs were written the way you write them

You mean with pure sarcasm? I do it because everyone grabs their pitchforks and torches way too easily. The internet outrage machine can suck it. I say cry harder. It won't change anything these companies do in the future. Intel and Nvidia are infamous for these kind of shenanigans. As the saying goes- if you can't beat them, join them.

The reason it rarely works is the products end up being winners. Which means many will buy them, even if they have to hold their nose when they do it. The 7800X 3D is here, it is the gaming performance per watt king. Whinging about why now, what could have been, how much it cost, is all sour grapes. It's like children being bent they can't have ice cream until they eat dinner. They may sulk and get salty, but they still eat the ice cream later.

 

[biostud]

Still not listed in Denmark
(it is Easter holidays until Saturday...)

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Still not listed in Denmark
(it is Easter holidays until Saturday...)

Finally out of stock at Newegg. Took longer than expected.