Zotac - GTX 460 SLI, up in smoke!

[mogman]

I thought you all would appreciate this, and any thoughts/comments about the root cause of this failure would be appreciated. I'm currently in discussions with Zotac support in an attempt to get these cards RMA'ed, but it doesn't look like they are going to consider/approve anything unless I raise a stink.

Motherboard - 1
http://picturepush.com/public/5512308

Motherboard - 2
http://picturepush.com/public/5512334

Card - 1 (Top SLI card, melted fan shroud)
http://picturepush.com/public/5512336

Card - 2 (Top SLI card, another shot of fan shroud)
http://picturepush.com/public/5512340

Card -3 (Main culprit, some sort of PCB failure???)
http://picturepush.com/public/5512344

Pictures are also posted over @ my thread on the Zotac forums.
http://www.zotacusa.com/forum/topic/4518-hardware-failure-gtx-460-1gb-amp/

System Details

Cooler Master HAF 932
Corsair H50 liquid cooler
i7 920 @ Stock
Corsair HX-850 power supply
Gigabyte X58A-UD5 F6 Bios
12GB DDR3 G.Skill (6 x 2GB)
2 x Zotac ZT-40403-10P (GTX 460 1GB AMP! Edition cards, 810mhz core)

I had both cards running in SLI with no issues since they were purchased new from Newegg on 1/9/2011. The cards were registered with Zotac within the first 30 days of warranty to upgrade the standard warranty to their "Limited Lifetime".

Zotac Warranty
http://www.zotacusa.com/warranty

I came home from work on Tuesday, 4/19, to find my system shutdown and a strong burning smell in the air. After a quick inspection, I thought it may have been a defective power supply. After replacing the power supply with a spare PC Power & Cooling 750, I was still not able to boot the system or get any video response, even though I did hear a post beep and saw drive activity.

After pulling the system apart, I found the root cause of the failure. The lower video card suffered some sort of PCB/component malfunction which flared up and burned/melted the heatshroud on the upper card. I've certainly never seen anything like this in my 16+ years of building PC's.

Their initial CSR response has not been encouraging and I'm waiting for a supervisor to call me back to discuss. If that doesn't go well, I'm considering my options for posting/linking on Newegg and other sites to try and generate some negative press re: their customer service and warranty policies.




~~~~~Update to thread posters comments & questions~~~~~~~~~

Thanks all for the comments, the conspiracy theories are especially entertaining. I work as an IT consultant, and as such, I barely have time to play an occassional game on Steam during rare downtime on the weekends. I leave my PC on ocassionally during the work week for remote access, testing etc.

The reason I started this thread was not to start a lynch mob, but to merely solicit discussion/opinion from others in the hardware community. You'll see from the initial Zotac communications posted below why I also wanted to get community opinion/support on my side.

1) OC question - the machine is not OC'ed in any way, CPU, video cards, or memory. The AMP! cards are already factory OC'ed and I don't play enough games to justify the extra heat/strain on the system. I have 3 high flow Sythe S-Flex fans mounted on the rear of the case and on the top exhaust. I also have two fans mounted on the H50 radiator in a push/pull configuration. The PC sits in a large 3rd floor bedroom with 15+ foot ceilings and a ceiling fan, ambient temp during the day never gets above 65-68 degrees. I also do not run any distributed computing projects at home anymore, so no GPU folding on this system that could have contributed to any overheating, etc.

2) Questionable component failure - The motherboard, CPU, memory, etc. are all back up and running with a spare PCP&C 750 power supply and EVGA 8800GT in the same top PCI-e slot that the 1st Zotac card occupied. I will be testing the Corsair PSU at work this week, time permitting, but the mobo appears to be intact minus the charring and melted plastic around PCI-e slots 3/4.

3) Water Damage - The Corsair unit and tubing were checked, no leakage found, and the unit is up and running as we speak with no temperature issues.

3) Weather events - No weather events at the time of the failure, the system in question is connected to an APC BackupUPS XS 1500.

4) Misconfiguration/poor slot placement - As others have noted, with this particular configuration, I was forced to install these cards in slots # 1 and #3. While these are dual-slot cards, this still left a decent finger width of space between them and they have been running in this configuration since January of this year with no overheating issues.

5) The original Corsair HX-850 power supply has been tested with a spare Core2Quad S775 system along with a 2nd spare 8800GT. No power issues, I'll leave it running overnight to be sure. At this point, the only failed/malfunctioning parts from my original system are the two melted/burned Zotac cards!


~~~~~Space Reserved for Zotac communication & posts~~~~~~~~~


Wednesday, 4/20, ~7pm EST - Received a phone call from a Zotac CSR re: my RMA form that I submitted via the Zotac USA website. I briefly explained the situation and sent a follow up e-mail with pictures of the video cards for their RMA team to review.

From: <c******@gmail.com>
To: hansel@zotacusa.com
Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM
Subject: RMA Request & Follow Up
mailed-by:gmail.com

Hansel,

Thank you for your time via phone this evening. Per our conversation, I have attached photos of the video card and motherboard damage for your review. Please let me know if additional photos are required.

Also, here is the link to my forum posting with pictures.

http://www.zotacusa.com/forum/topic/4518-hardware-failure-gtx-460-1gb-amp/

Based on the failure/damage, I would certainly appreciate anything Zotac can do to replace the cards and motherboard (Gigabyte X58A-UD5). Amazingly, the CPU and memory appear to be fine, I'm testing them in a friends system this evening.

Best,

-Chris

On Friday, 4/22 at 1:09pm EST, I received the following update:

From: Hansel von Muller <hansel@zotacusa.com>
TO: Chris Messer <c*****@gmail.com>
CC: Andrew <andrew@zotacusa.com>, Luis Molina <LuisM@zotacusa.com>

Date:Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM
subject: RE: RMA Request & Follow Up
mailed-by: zotacusa.com

I have looked into this issue and had it also reviewed by my superiors.

Unfortunately we cannot provide any type of RMA since the product is severely damaged physically.

I apologize for the inconvenience

Hansel von Muller
Tech Support Lead
ZOTAC USA
877-59-ZOTAC (96822) ext. 605

I responded with the following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hansel,

Unfortunately, this is not an acceptable answer. These video cards were purchased barely 4 months ago, and were registered immediately after purchase with Zotac to be covered under the "Lifetime" warranty.

Per you own warranty policy, copied below, the RMA can only be denied if there was improper installation, modifications, or operating conditions. None of those have been met, the cards failed under normal operation, therefore I believe that my defective products should be covered/replaced under the Zotac lifetime warranty coverage as advertised.

I would like to speak with your supervisor immediately as this is an unacceptable answer and very disappointing customer service from Zotac.

Warranty Conditions
The Warranty is valid based on the following conditions:
Tampering, defacing, or removal of any serial, part or model number sticker(s) on ANY ZOTAC products WILL VOID WARRANTY
Tampering, defacing, or removal of any "Warranty Void if Seal is Broken" label on ANY ZOTAC products WILL VOID WARRANTY.
The Warranty does not extend to defects caused by failure to comply with operating instructions, improper use, inappropriate operating conditions, or modifications by the customer.
The product MUST be returned to ZOTAC USA in the original factory configuration and condition. All aftermarket modifications must be reversed prior to sending in the product for repair or replacement.
Warranty will be voided if physical damage occurs to the PCB, chipset, or components caused by improper installation, damage during modification or installation of aftermarket attachment(s), or water or chemical damage of any kind.
ZOTAC USA reserves the right to inspect and verify the defects of any product(s) returned.
ZOTAC USA reserves the right to claim for shipping fees and service charge from the customer for any product returned incomplete or modified.
ZOTAC USA reserves the right to claim service charge from the customer if the product requires repair or replacement when the customer is not entitled to any coverage under this warranty.

Please have your supervisor call me at their earliest conveneince at ***-***-****.

Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thoughts, comments, discussion???

 

[Schmide]

You smelled burning and only replaced the PSU without visually inspecting everything? I think that smells more fishy.

 

[notty22]

Is the chipset heatsink completely melted through ? Was that aluminum. That was a little hot fire. Catastrophic is the word.
edit: maybe its just charred across where the video card lay.

I wonder what would casue this on a idle system ?

 

[mogman]

The smell appeared to be coming from the power supply when I popped the case open, and I assumed that to be the root cause of the shutdown. Simple cause and effect, I certainly didn't expect to come home and find both cards melted.

Also, if you'll note from the pictures that the damage to the heatshroud on the upper card is on the side of the card that faces the motherboard, there was no way to see that anything was wrong until I pulled out both cards from the system.

 

[sandorski]

Ultr?????able

Whatever happened, it was dramatic to be sure.

 

[mosox]

Awww, she thinks she's a GTX 480.

 

[RussianSensation]

Did you inspect the Corsair H50 for any possible leaks/breakage in the piping? At this point it's probably difficult to diagnose why the PCB was on fire (could be overheating, component failure, electrical issue). Are you sure it was the bottom videocard that started the issue and not the top one?

 

[T101]

This is catastrophic, and sadly, I think it is one of those "perfect storm" situations. Where you had multiple failures causing the blaze. You usually dont see electronics burning like this unless you have mistreated them seriously, or you have that one in a million situation where several failures cause enough heat to make the plastic to start burning.

 

[OCGuy]

Are you just trying to get Zotac to honor your warranty here? Is this supposed to put pressure on them? *confused*

 

[dakU7]

Awww, she thinks she's a GTX 480.

I lol'ed.

Will gigabyte agree to RMA the mobo?

 

[JRW]

You smelled burning and only replaced the PSU without visually inspecting everything? I think that smells more fishy.

Yea I find this part really bizarre, If I smelled burning I would've had the case cover off and inspected everything.

And maybe its just my case but I have to remove the side panel to change the PSU anyhow ... The case is like 4 years old tho maybe things have changed.

 

[Will Robinson]

Are you just trying to get Zotac to honor your warranty here? Is this supposed to put pressure on them? *confused*

Confused?
His expensive NVidia cards caught fire and he'd like a refund.

Understand now?

Maybe they'll offer him a GTX590 as a replacement....oh wait:whiste:


Baiting is irresponsible and problematic. Inflammatory rhetoric is not productive.

Re:

Maybe they'll offer him a GTX590 as a replacement....oh wait:whiste:

Thread doesn't need the trolling.

(community note: this infraction has triggered a 2-month vacation for the member)

Idontcare
Super Mod

 

[notty22]

This is getting brutal, children celebrating someone's bad luck, nice.

 

[linje]

I think we will see how good zotac is a a brand.
But I don't think they are obligated to cover you'r
motherboard.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Now that's what I'd call a catastrophic failure. Honestly though this really seems like a one in a million kinduv thing and if I were Zotac I'd replace the motherboard & cards and wash my hands of it.

You'd almost be better off if it were the corsair unit leaking/PSU crapping out. If there is one thing corsair does really right, its standing by their product and pulling out all the stops to make sure you're taken care of.

 

[alcoholbob]

This is one reason I never spend (extra) money for warranty. When it comes down to it, it's a legal obligation by federal law and not charity; they will find any opportunity to deny you coverage.

 

[busydude]

Were there any lightning strikes near your house on that day?

 

[nanaki333]

Were there any lightning strikes near your house on that day?

or IN his house?

 

[Zap]

His expensive NVidia cards caught fire and he'd like a refund.

They don't owe him a refund. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.

But I don't think they are obligated to cover you'r
motherboard.

They don't owe him a Gigabyte motherboard. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.

 

[Idontcare]

Dang, looking at those cards you are really lucky to not have had a house-fire from it.

 

[notty22]

A Antec rep, over at TH forums wrote about a worst case situation with high wattage single rail PSU's. This was at a time, (guessing, 14 months ago), when they were introducing a new line of high end multi-rail models with various types of over- current protection.
This was when forum gospel started to believe only single-rail psu's were the best choice for Fermi , high power pull gpu's.
He felt that dead-short type worst case scenarios could really be dangerous. Possible with some single rail psu's, without a over-current dedicated circuit. Something hard to implement on a single rail.
Looking at the op's , pci-e slot, gpu , it appears like a dead-short in that area, took place.
Not sure, if a psu or power-strip should have tripped before the results we see happened. Obviously they didn't.

 

[linje]

They don't owe him a refund. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.



They don't owe him a Gigabyte motherboard. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.

I thought that was what I said. sorry for the confusion.

 

[yacoub]

You smelled burning and only replaced the PSU without visually inspecting everything? I think that smells more fishy.

Note that the burned area would actually be hard to spot from a quick scan of a complete system. Only upon taking out the cards would that damage be very obvious.

 

[nenforcer]

Do you leave your system on 24/7? I can't stand the power draw even at idle and shut mine down (2 X 9800GT in SLI) whenever possible. I don't even like to use that PC as my daily browser because its overkill.

Do you think the early summer weather had something to do with it? I live in Arizona where it gets up to 110 outside during the summer.

 

[Will Robinson]

They don't owe him a refund. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.



They don't owe him a Gigabyte motherboard. Their warranty policy would cover replacing the non-functioning Zotac cards.

Umm...Did you even look at the pictures of melted cards and PCBs
Hardly what one would term "non-functioning"