Zzr600 - good sport-tourer? Update: Purchased '06 Multistrada

[kamikazekyle]

Well, seeing as how I had a good post all typed up but lost it when my session timed out, here's a bit quicker take 2.

I currently have a CBR250R for a daily driver, but knew when I got it that it wouldn't be the best for all the interstates around here or for longer distance riding. I really noticed this during a 400 mile round trip with raw saddle sores and some interstate driving that I had to keep the engine nearly maxed to keep up with traffic in the right lane.

I was looking to compliment the CBR250 mid/late next year with something that could handle longer trips (but not a full-blown touring or cruiser) as well as something that would handle interstates better. I started leaning to the Triumph Tiger 800s since they seemed to fit the bill without being too powerful and had cargo and dual-sportish options to boot. But, they were kinda at the top end of my price range even without factoring in the extra cash for luggage. I wasn't impressed by other adventures except for BMW's or Ducatti's lineups, which get even more expensive.

While looking at the local used market, I happend to stumble across a 2008 ZZR600 with one owner, garage kept, Muzzy exhaust, and only 1381 miles for just $4995. I dismissed a sport touring bike figuring they'd be too powerful, nor had I planned to purchase now, but that seemed like a damn good deal.

Doing some research it seems to be favored for the touring aspect and comfort, and is still more rider friendly than similar 600cc sport/supersports despite having such high horsepower. I'm a bit worried that it's not all great for longer rides or has too much HP, but again reviews seem to indicate that it's an easier ride than a full on sport and you need to make an effort to get its sportier side out.

Anyway, anyone have any input on the ZZR600? Think it'll fit my needs without breaking the bank? I'm still using the CBR250 for general commutes and hops around the city, as well as improving my riding skills. So I'm thinking this ZZR will be a good compliment without forking over $14k for a Tiger 800 after all the fees, panniers, etc.

UPDATE: Wound up purchasing an '06 Multistrada 1000DS. If interested in the details, see below.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It's a very different bike compared to the others you're looking at..

It's sorta odd, there are no similarities (in the us) between the zzr1200 and 600. The 1200 was a purpose built touring/sport - almost like a hayabusa. The 600 is a rebadged last gen zx6r. In other words, it started as a full out super sport.

I think you should look for a versys, vstrom 600, something along those lines if you're doing 400mi days.

 

[kamikazekyle]

That's kinda what I was getting from the research in that it was supersport with some chasis changes, so I figured I should ask before I really go full bore. There's a fully kitted used 06 Multistrada 1200 and a fully kitted 07 BMW R1200GSA at the dealer, but both are kinda high mileage and expensive. Plus the BMW has stickers ALL over the luggage boxes and even on the faring.

The only real reason I was looking at adventure bikes is that they were pretty all-arounders, but if I can save some money by finding a comfortable sport-touring I wouldn't mind swapping the style (though I doubt I'd want to go with a ZZR1200). I did look into the VStrom but wasn't pleased with the reviews vice the Tiger 800s. I might get lucky on the Versys if I can find a used one. The Yamaha and Kawasaki dealers in this area price gouge 20-30% over MSRP for new inventory, and had virtually zilch for used inventory.

Anywho, since I wasn't planning on buying yet I'll keep an eye out. I might still go and check the ZZR600 out and see if the size/fit/sitting position seems OK vice a standard. Thanks for the input; much appreciated.

 

[crackerjacks]

I have the older R1150GS, 60,000 miles and running strong. BMW's are funny, if you get one you can get 100,000 miles on them with nothing more than brakes, tires and fluids before you need to start replacing bearings and other wear items. Some though, have their final drives explode every 30,000 miles..clutch splines stripping out every 60,000 and hall effect sensors failing while you are 500 miles from home. The vast majority are trouble free, but the internet is full of stories from people with the bad ones.

How many miles did the R1200GS have? If it's 40-50,000 miles and has a service history available not listing any major repairs I would consider be safe to assume it's a good one.

I'd also recommend checking out the suzuki bandit or the v-strom. They are cheap, run forever and are highly reliable. Not the most exciting bike but it'll get you there and back home again.

 

[kamikazekyle]

I have the older R1150GS, 60,000 miles and running strong. BMW's are funny, if you get one you can get 100,000 miles on them with nothing more than brakes, tires and fluids before you need to start replacing bearings and other wear items. Some though, have their final drives explode every 30,000 miles..clutch splines stripping out every 60,000 and hall effect sensors failing while you are 500 miles from home. The vast majority are trouble free, but the internet is full of stories from people with the bad ones.

How many miles did the R1200GS have? If it's 40-50,000 miles and has a service history available not listing any major repairs I would consider be safe to assume it's a good one.

I'd also recommend checking out the suzuki bandit or the v-strom. They are cheap, run forever and are highly reliable. Not the most exciting bike but it'll get you there and back home again.

Huh I misread the multistrada info. I thought it was 70k miles. Turns out its 20k miles on an 06 multistrada with side and tail hard luggage for $7400. The r1200 has 55k miles and is going for $11000 with hard tail and side luggage that's covered in more stickers than a sticker book for children. Not sure on service histories.

I might have to give those two a look if I head to the dealer. I'm not a fan of the 06 multistrada looks but that seems to be a decent price.

 

[crackerjacks]

that's not bad for the multistrada, they're good bikes and are plenty fun to put up big miles and hit the twisties.

I'd pass on the BMW. You can get a brand new Super Tenere or 800 tiger for about $12,000 if you wanted to go the adventure bike route which you already said is the upper limit of your price point.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The ZZR600 might feel a little anemic once you get loaded touring bags on it, plus it isn't sprung for that kind of weight. The Multistrada would be just what you're looking for IMO and 20k is nothing for that bike. I work with a guy who has over 50k on his and rides it daily. He loves that bike. His other bike is a Yamaha sport touring bike, one of the big engine bikes but he says it is not nearly as much fun to ride as the Ducati (Duc is much lighter).

Suzuki v-strom would be an excellent choice, if you can find one.

You probably won't find the Versys used as it just came out very recently and are in pretty high demand.

 

[kamikazekyle]

I'm really leaning the Ducati the more I think on it. The zzr is a pretty good price point but im gathering it's more on the super sport side than touring, so I'd rather just grab a normal sport/super sport in that case. I prefer the looks of the Tiger 800 but if I can save $5000 minimum I'll make some compromises

 

[Pantoot]

Not nearly in the same league as the Duc, but you might want to look at a preowned Honda VFR800. Gives you the more upright style of a tourer, but way more comfortable for long rides than a true sportbike.

 

[MiataNC]

Suzuki DL650K V-Strom

You can get one fully "farkled" (accessorized) for $3-5K

You won't find a better mile eater for the money.

Also consider the Suzuki 1250S Bandit if you want more oomph!

 

[satyajitmenon]

Can the ZZR600 be used for touring? Yes. (with some Helibar Risers and a ZeroG Touring Screen).

Are there better touring bikes out there at comparable prices? Yes.

If you hit up the sportbikes.net and ZZRBikes forums, you'll find ZZR600 owners who do tour. And they're pretty happy doing it. But if you're looking to buy a bike specifically for touring, get one that's built for it.

At the price you're looking at, you should seriously consider a 1250S Bandit. Plenty of grunt, comfortable, and can be thrown around a turn if you need to.


< ----- Owns a ZZR600

 

[kamikazekyle]

Hitting up Craigslist there's an 01 gsf600 bandit for $1800 that looks to be in good shape, and an older post for an '07 1250 bandit for $4900 with lots of mods. Vstrom wise the only thing I've come across is a 2011 DL650 ABS for $6900.

I think I wouldnt mind a vstrom but I'd rather spring for a new 2012 Adventure vice that 2011 due to suspension and engine improvements, plus it's only $3000 more than the used 2011 and includes side cases, a touring windscreen, and a crash bar. That 01 bandit might be an option for so cheap but for that model year it was reported to be kinda anemic in low and high rpm ranges.

So I'm still thinking that ducati might be my best used bet unless I go for a wait and see approach, and I'd probably grab a Tiger 800 next year if I went new.

 

[andylawcc]

for $4995? that's expensive. I rather pick up a Ninja 650, Versys, or the ER6n.

 

[andylawcc]

heck, or get a SV1000 or Honda's VFR800.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I love my Bandit 1200S. I've ridden my friend's Bandit 600 and it was just kinda annoying after my 1200 -- six-speed close-ratio and holy hell did it need it. The thing was gutless. The 1200 only needs five to cover its much wider speed range and it has a power band where you can park it in 3rd and be good from 15 to 110.
Big, comfortable seat; upright riding position; and they're pretty darned cheap.

 

[kamikazekyle]

for $4995? that's expensive. I rather pick up a Ninja 650, Versys, or the ER6n.

heck, or get a SV1000 or Honda's VFR800.

Yea, KBB retail on a top-condition 07 is only $5115 with a good appraised trade in at $3800ish. I only skimmed the post since it was kinda old, didn't have photos, and in another state, but even with mods $4995 is skimming the upper range.

The VFR's/Interceptors and SV's kinda crossed my mind, but I didn't have too much luck turning up anything used or for a reasonable price. I am trying to stay away from the glut of scummy dealers around here. Thanks to those dealers, a lot of Japanese bikes are sold to people for over MSRP/Blue Book, then consequently filter back into the used market for inflated prices.

Anywho. I stopped by the Ducati dealer today. Even if I wasn't going to buy they're highly, highly regarded and recommended for their service department so I could at least take a look at that. They still had the 2006 Multistrada 1000DS in stock, along with two 2005 Multi's. I was still kinda leery about the Multi since it was $7500 for a 5 year old bike despite pretty decent mileage and being around KBB retail.

Once I actually looked at the bike in person and talked to the dealership owner, I was kinda taken aback. The bike was purchased and traded in at that same dealership by the same owner, the dealership owner knew the prior bike owner (a retired boat captain that just did normal touring on the bike), and one of the mechanics was a personal friend of the guy and did all the work on the bike. So the shop and owner-performed service history were known, as was the history and use of the bike.

The bike itself was in really good shape for 20,000 miles. No damage except a small chip in the tank paint (looks like it was one of the coated plastic tanks?) and some small scuffing on the tail cargo case probably from the rider swinging his leg to dismount.

But the kicker was the engine and aftermarket parts. The prior owner tried to do some work on the engine but messed it up, so while he had it in-shop he had them rebuild the engine even though it didn't need it. On top of the normal rebuild procedures, they did a minor port and polish as well as polish on the transmission. That was done fairly recently, so even though the frame has 20k, the engine only has 5k since the full rebuild. I'm not totally keen on a rebuild, but at least it was done by a good shop and they took care of two of the most likely engine issues to surface in the 1000s.

And then the mods and accessories:
-Ohlins racing front and rear suspension, basically turning it to an S trim sans carbon fiber bits
-Power Commander with custom ECU programming via dyno runs, all done by the dealer (they had *lines* of bikes waiting on dyno runs and Power Commander programming)
-Arrow carbon fiber exhaust slipons
-ProOiler system
-Custom ventilated seat (uber comfortable)
-Wave rotors
-Side OEM hardcase panniers and an OEM top pillion hardcase
-DC electrical ports mounted into the fairing at convient spots
-Live voltmeter for the battery
-Aftermarket aluminum handlebar, hand guards, grips (meh), bar weights, and aluminum levers with dials for quick freeplay adjustment (gaudy color though)
-Insturment cluster offset for cell phone mount with power pre-run
-Center stand
-Tires changed to a bit more sport oriented Dunlops (probably change the rear within 5-10k; this guy liked twisties)
-Custom screw gas cap

The price was a little high for what I wanted to spend on a used bike, but with the service and personal history tacked on with the engine work and aftermarket parts, I felt like it was a worthwhile buy. It also seems like the bike is fairly easy to work on in case something goes wrong later down the line, and you can still get full parts for it easy enough.

I might tighten up the suspension as it's configured more for comfort touring, so the front end dives a decent bit in braking. The headlight is also uber dim, though I'm not sure if that's a trait of the bike, bad alignment, or just an old/crappy bulb.

I only had a chance to ride it back from the dealership since they don't offer test rides on used bikes, and it was a great experience even in 1/2 city stop and go traffic. The work they did on the clutch and transmission polish was phenominal. It shifted smoother than any wet clutch I've ever used and a lot smoother than my CBR250. For my build wind is almost totally pushed around me except for some on my arms and the riding position is perfect.

Still, I'm not going to ride it again until I can get out and familarize myself with the bike during the daytime in dry weather (calling for lots of rain this coming week). The power and riding profile change from the CBR is astronomical -- especially when it acts like a top heavy dual sport at <10 MPH -- so I figure jaunting around to/from work at midnight during a rainstorm isn't a good idea just yet On the flip side, my Driven clipons and D3 grips came in for the CBR, so that'll give me something to do if I'm not covering shifts yet again (been almost a month since I had a day off).

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Is it 'real' ohlins (IE aftermarket) or is it truly just S parts swapped over?


Like you, I don't care for the engine rebuild story. I would make sure to get paperwork on that, as often times you don't know about problems until the next valve adjustment etc. Since it happened right at 15k I suspect he botched a valve adjustment.

I like the prooiler, shows he probably cared at least a little bit about maintenance type stuff as well as the farkles

Glad you found something you like.. Multis (and ducati in general) have a ton of character.. If you can find a decent dealer (sounds like you did!) then you'll have a blast with it and it'll last a long long time.

 

[crackerjacks]

congrats, it's great bike and I've found most Ducati(and guzzi) mechanics really know their stuff as it's a real passion with those guys. More so than the wrench monkeys a lot of places hire that work on suzuki, kawasaki, etc...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Is it 'real' ohlins (IE aftermarket) or is it truly just S parts swapped over?


Like you, I don't care for the engine rebuild story. I would make sure to get paperwork on that, as often times you don't know about problems until the next valve adjustment etc. Since it happened right at 15k I suspect he botched a valve adjustment.

I like the prooiler, shows he probably cared at least a little bit about maintenance type stuff as well as the farkles

Glad you found something you like.. Multis (and ducati in general) have a ton of character.. If you can find a decent dealer (sounds like you did!) then you'll have a blast with it and it'll last a long long time.

Um, that is real Ohlins...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yea, KBB retail on a top-condition 07 is only $5115 with a good appraised trade in at $3800ish. I only skimmed the post since it was kinda old, didn't have photos, and in another state, but even with mods $4995 is skimming the upper range.

The VFR's/Interceptors and SV's kinda crossed my mind, but I didn't have too much luck turning up anything used or for a reasonable price. I am trying to stay away from the glut of scummy dealers around here. Thanks to those dealers, a lot of Japanese bikes are sold to people for over MSRP/Blue Book, then consequently filter back into the used market for inflated prices.

Anywho. I stopped by the Ducati dealer today. Even if I wasn't going to buy they're highly, highly regarded and recommended for their service department so I could at least take a look at that. They still had the 2006 Multistrada 1000DS in stock, along with two 2005 Multi's. I was still kinda leery about the Multi since it was $7500 for a 5 year old bike despite pretty decent mileage and being around KBB retail.

Once I actually looked at the bike in person and talked to the dealership owner, I was kinda taken aback. The bike was purchased and traded in at that same dealership by the same owner, the dealership owner knew the prior bike owner (a retired boat captain that just did normal touring on the bike), and one of the mechanics was a personal friend of the guy and did all the work on the bike. So the shop and owner-performed service history were known, as was the history and use of the bike.

The bike itself was in really good shape for 20,000 miles. No damage except a small chip in the tank paint (looks like it was one of the coated plastic tanks?) and some small scuffing on the tail cargo case probably from the rider swinging his leg to dismount.

But the kicker was the engine and aftermarket parts. The prior owner tried to do some work on the engine but messed it up, so while he had it in-shop he had them rebuild the engine even though it didn't need it. On top of the normal rebuild procedures, they did a minor port and polish as well as polish on the transmission. That was done fairly recently, so even though the frame has 20k, the engine only has 5k since the full rebuild. I'm not totally keen on a rebuild, but at least it was done by a good shop and they took care of two of the most likely engine issues to surface in the 1000s.

And then the mods and accessories:
-Ohlins racing front and rear suspension, basically turning it to an S trim sans carbon fiber bits
-Power Commander with custom ECU programming via dyno runs, all done by the dealer (they had *lines* of bikes waiting on dyno runs and Power Commander programming)
-Arrow carbon fiber exhaust slipons
-ProOiler system
-Custom ventilated seat (uber comfortable)
-Wave rotors
-Side OEM hardcase panniers and an OEM top pillion hardcase
-DC electrical ports mounted into the fairing at convient spots
-Live voltmeter for the battery
-Aftermarket aluminum handlebar, hand guards, grips (meh), bar weights, and aluminum levers with dials for quick freeplay adjustment (gaudy color though)
-Insturment cluster offset for cell phone mount with power pre-run
-Center stand
-Tires changed to a bit more sport oriented Dunlops (probably change the rear within 5-10k; this guy liked twisties)
-Custom screw gas cap

The price was a little high for what I wanted to spend on a used bike, but with the service and personal history tacked on with the engine work and aftermarket parts, I felt like it was a worthwhile buy. It also seems like the bike is fairly easy to work on in case something goes wrong later down the line, and you can still get full parts for it easy enough.

I might tighten up the suspension as it's configured more for comfort touring, so the front end dives a decent bit in braking. The headlight is also uber dim, though I'm not sure if that's a trait of the bike, bad alignment, or just an old/crappy bulb.

I only had a chance to ride it back from the dealership since they don't offer test rides on used bikes, and it was a great experience even in 1/2 city stop and go traffic. The work they did on the clutch and transmission polish was phenominal. It shifted smoother than any wet clutch I've ever used and a lot smoother than my CBR250. For my build wind is almost totally pushed around me except for some on my arms and the riding position is perfect.

Still, I'm not going to ride it again until I can get out and familarize myself with the bike during the daytime in dry weather (calling for lots of rain this coming week). The power and riding profile change from the CBR is astronomical -- especially when it acts like a top heavy dual sport at <10 MPH -- so I figure jaunting around to/from work at midnight during a rainstorm isn't a good idea just yet On the flip side, my Driven clipons and D3 grips came in for the CBR, so that'll give me something to do if I'm not covering shifts yet again (been almost a month since I had a day off).

Awesome bike! Congrats! I think you'll love it. I also think you did well, that bike is worth every penny and I wouldn't have hesitated to buy it in your position especially with the history and mods.

 

[kamikazekyle]

Yea, I'm pretty happy about it. It reminds me of back when I did the MSF and the Super Sherpa they put me on. Lil' top heavy and more tricky at very low speeds than the minicruisers, but once you got some speed going and the shocks compressing in a good lean, it was hella fun. I just need to get some time during the day in an empty public lot to work on the low speed stuff again. Cops don't like it when you're driving around a parking lot at 2 am.

The dealership is top-notch both by reviews and word of mouth. The prior bike owner also bought an ST2 from that same dealership before he got the Multi. I probably got such a solid deal due to the rebuild, but since the service shop is renowned in the area I was pretty comfortable about the work done. The chain will probably only last another year, but I might take the opportunity to get on a new set of tires and maaaaybe a 14T up front to improve gas mileage and get out of the sub-3500K lugging zone sooner.

Oh, and Spatially, the installed Ohlins are the same models that were on the S trim, but purchased aftermarket. It would have been nice if he did grab an S trim as I think the black rims would enhance the look and make it more Ducati-like.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Um, that is real Ohlins...

Ohlins makes stuff for Duc (and Aprilia, and others) on a budget with cheaper internals compared to what you get if you buy a similar shock aftermarket.

When disassembled you'll find things like the nitride coatings only barely going past the fork seals vs the entire tube, coatings that come off after 5 years, seal setups that have 1 sealing ring vs multiples.. that sort of thing.

Ducati specs them out to ohlins, who makes whatever they're asked. Ducati is not buying 'off the shelf' ohlins and putting them on their bikes. Also ohlins can't supply parts for most oem setups for this same reason.


They do the same thing with brembo brakes... 1198 'monoblocs' are nothing like the actual brembo monoblocs you'd buy off a shelf. (although still fantastic brakes!!)

Same with g35 "brembos", these were produced in asia with a nice red brembo sticker applied at the nissan factory. You can't order these "brembo big brakes" from anywhere... they're OE factory stuff made at a budget. Are they decent brakes? Sure... although imo it cheapens the brembo brand quite a bit.






Perhaps 'not real' is a bit strong, but there idefinitely a significant difference between retail off the shelf ohlins/brembo/etc and what you get OEM (although whether it's worth the cost is a whole other argument).

That being said - OP, don't take any of this as a dig... There's nothing wrong with what came on your bike, it's better than almost all factory ST setups... Even "real" ohlins won't help track times and comfort 1 iota for what you're doing.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

.......and..... PICS?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Ohlins makes stuff for Duc (and Aprilia, and others) on a budget with cheaper internals compared to what you get if you buy a similar shock aftermarket.

When disassembled you'll find things like the nitride coatings only barely going past the fork seals vs the entire tube, coatings that come off after 5 years, seal setups that have 1 sealing ring vs multiples.. that sort of thing.

Ducati specs them out to ohlins, who makes whatever they're asked. Ducati is not buying 'off the shelf' ohlins and putting them on their bikes. Also ohlins can't supply parts for most oem setups for this same reason.


They do the same thing with brembo brakes... 1198 'monoblocs' are nothing like the actual brembo monoblocs you'd buy off a shelf. (although still fantastic brakes!!)

Same with g35 "brembos", these were produced in asia with a nice red brembo sticker applied at the nissan factory. You can't order these "brembo big brakes" from anywhere... they're OE factory stuff made at a budget. Are they decent brakes? Sure... although imo it cheapens the brembo brand quite a bit.






Perhaps 'not real' is a bit strong, but there idefinitely a significant difference between retail off the shelf ohlins/brembo/etc and what you get OEM (although whether it's worth the cost is a whole other argument).

That being said - OP, don't take any of this as a dig... There's nothing wrong with what came on your bike, it's better than almost all factory ST setups... Even "real" ohlins won't help track times and comfort 1 iota for what you're doing.

Yeah, it is real Ohlins though and quite a bit better than the stuff you get on most bikes.

I rode a 2009 Monster 1100 S and the Ohlins suspension makes a big difference in both comfort and control. The suspension on my bike is decent but a bit harsh over rough pavement. I didn't notice that with the S model.

And yeah, we need pics!!!

 

[rstrohkirch]

I rode a 2009 Monster 1100 S and the Ohlins suspension makes a big difference in both comfort and control.

I think the Ohlins "upgrade" on the Ducati setup is silly. In this example, the $2000 difference in msrp between the standard and S, Ducati literally passes all the cost onto the buyer. You could sell the stock Showa forks and Sachs shock on eBay that came with the standard model and then buy "real" aftermarket Ohlins while staying within the cost difference of OEM. The set you buy would be sprung and valved for your weight and riding type as well. I guess you could also apply the same idea to the stock components. Take the $2000 you saved, pocket $1000 and revalve/spring the stock stuff for $1000.